How to scale a fitness brand

Jeniffer Cohen:

Because people get so stuck in the thinking and what if this? What if that happens? I don’t know. And by the time you figure it out, it’s three years later, and you’re still nowhere else. You’re still sitting in the same spot you were in versus acting. At least if you acted and you failed you may have pushed yourself a little further, at least. You could take five steps forward and three steps back, you still are two steps forward.

Jeniffer Cohen:

Right?

Jeniffer Cohen:

Welcome. Oh, thank you so much for having me. I am really happy to be here. We’ve been trying to get this going for a little bit, and I know it’s been a challenge with the time zones and everything else. So, this is a big moment.

Jeniffer Cohen:

Me too.

Jeniffer Cohen:

Well, I think that things are always in the fitness space, there’s always things that become trendy, there are a lot of fads, and all that kind of thing. There’s really, COVID or not COVID is just emphasises one thing over another. But what has been happening, as I’m sure everyone can imagine is that when COVID hit, and people weren’t able to work out in their gyms, it became the new thing to home workouts were a big thing. And that comes in lots of different ways. All the different trainers were now moving to doing virtual workouts, either by Zoom or on Instagram Lives. And just anything. I mean workouts in terms of it’s us going on YouTube and checking out a workout on YouTube and doing a fitness class or subscribing to a fitness channel. I mean, that became what was obviously the only thing that we were able to do.

But with anything in life, everything becomes habitual. You do something long enough, and that becomes your new habit, and your new routine, and your new lifestyle. And that’s been going on for over a year. So now that we’re shifting away from COVID people… That the world is opening up again the question is, and this is a really big question. And people in the business of fitness are trying to figure out, what is going to happen? Are people going to be much more adept at what they now have become accustomed to doing, which is working out at home where you can save so much time and money, right? Because if you’re working out… If you’re going to the gym, that time going to and from the gym can… It’s a lot of time that you’ve wasted really virtually. Or is it going to be happening or again somewhere else?

Now, what I’ve seen happen is what I’ve actually seen, and I’m surprised to say that people bounce back going back to gyms quicker than I thought would have happened. I think people really miss that social element, that ability to see people and socialise and really feel connected to a community. No matter how much you do that online there’s nothing that takes the place of seeing somebody face-to-face and developing that type of rapport. And so, the question really is now what’s going to happen or what’s going to happen with all of these online virtual platforms that people created? A lot of other tech companies have created and started to help facilitate a lot of these virtual workouts, too.

Jeniffer Cohen:

I think the virtual workouts are here to stay to some capacity. I think there are people who are more comfortable now working out at home. Therefore, there’s going to be people who will stay on those platforms, and because they prefer it, because of all the reasons I just said. But I do think that there’s going to be a hit, a loss in that space as well. Because I said, People want to socialise, they want to get out there again. People have felt so cooped up and stuck in their space that now they have the ability to leave their house and workout somewhere else that is very enticing to them. So, I think that maybe it will sustain itself. Virtual workouts will sustain themselves for a while. But I do think there will be a big dip and decline in profitability.

Jeniffer Cohen:

Well, yeah, so basically, I created… I do a lot of different things within the fitness space, health and wellness space.

Jeniffer Cohen:

Right. So, my latest project was really I created a company called Suprema, which it’s really what it is. It’s more of a marketing and branding management agency in the health and wellness space. That means managing other experts businesses’ or creating opportunities for them to monetize better. And that could mean creating an online platform. So the one that you’re speaking with was for one of the things that we did was we took Ryan Lochte who is obviously one of the best swimmers of all time. And we created this fitness pillar in his business, where people can work out with him in real time, and train like an Olympic athlete. And so, why we did that with him was because he’s one of the best athletes in the world.

And so, the opportunity, as I saw it, was here with all these other fitness professionals and trainers and other people who are working out, making their business online and having their people follow them. But how cool and how much better would it be to actually work out with an Olympic trainer doing what he does to get ready for the Olympics, or what his routine is to train with somebody of that level? That way to me was really cool in a time when… We created it in a time when COVID was, we’re deep in COVID. And the way I saw it was I’d rather workout with someone like that than just somebody else who is more common to work out with. And that was one of the businesses that we created, definitely.

Now the question is, what are we going to do with it now because now to get to a point that we’re saying, there are going to be a lot of people who are going to stay and want to do that workout with him. And we’re going to lose some people because people want to go to the gym. But the truth is, you can do a little bit of both. In today’s time and fitness, you don’t have to stay in one thing. You can do a little bit of everything. There’s a variety. You can do some virtual fitness. You can do some classes at the boutique studios. You can pick and choose, and that’s the beauty of it, right? You can try out a lot of different things and see what you like, what you don’t like, and find something that speaks to you, and that you want to do. At the end of the day we’re not going to do something we don’t want to do.

Jeniffer Cohen:

What? These ways to train in what way, just online?

Jeniffer Cohen:

Absolutely. I think there’s a lot of… Okay, so I think that absolutely. I think we’re living in a digital time. I think we’re living in a technology focus time. So, that’s a good thing in the sense that like I was saying you don’t have to go out and workout. In the comfort of your own home you can Google any workout you want. You say, “I want to try Zumba. I want to be a Zumba person. I want to do HIIT training. I want to do yoga. I want to do whatever you want to do. I want to do strength training for my arms.” And you can just with a click of a button, you can try so many things. And now everybody has these one week free trials, or two week free trials, and you can save so much money by trying so many different things, and figure out what works best for you. And that I think there’s a lot of appeal to that.

Jeniffer Cohen:

Well, I think that’s a very good question, and I think that’s something that people struggle with a lot, especially in the industry of fitness because it’s so saturated. When an industry is as saturated as fitness, it’s important to do two things. Number one, it’s to really give good content. Content will always win the war. I think that people, you can only go so far with posting a selfie of their body. At the end of the day, people want to get content that they can learn from, or they gain something from. So really make sure that you’re giving your audience something useful, something practical that they can really take and digest and learn. That’s number one.

The other thing is finding a niche. I think the problem is when we try to be a jack of all trades, we’ve become a master of none. And then we get even more lost in the shuffle. The more we can hone in and really find a niche that speaks to one thing is really a great way to really help build a community and build an audience. Once you have that, then maybe then you can pepper in other things. But I really believe in staying true to one… Being really laser focused on one area. So people know when they come to see you what they’re going to expect versus a lot of other people it’s very difficult because sometimes things hit and track really well. People get a lot of retention, and they’re like, “Why are they getting retention, and I’m not getting retention? What am I doing differently?” And some of those variables are just… It’s just life. There’s no way of really… It’s timing, it’s who is in their circle in the first place that then they’re getting recommended to other people, so it’s much easier to grow when you have a baseline or your community is the other people who are impactful to help spread your word.

But I think staying in your lane, being really laser focused, giving away really good content, and giving away content for free. I think what people really try to do is they try to sell these courses to them too quickly. And then you’re not able to really build an engaging audience. I know, for me, I like to go to the pages where I know I’m getting really valuable information, unique things as much as possible, that I wouldn’t be able to otherwise see somewhere else. And also following people or doing the workouts of someone that is very knowledgeable and educated in that space. I think knowing who you’re dealing with is so important. There’s so many people in the fitness space who are just like Dodo birds. They shouldn’t be even doing some of this stuff.

And so, it’s really just being a little bit discerning and being like, “Okay, who are these people? Who is this person? Do they have the background? Do they have the education? Am I going to not get injured, can I stay safe? Am I going to get a quality workout?” A lot of that is about trial and error. And asking other people, your friends. But I think that being discerning is really, really important when you’re trying to find somebody to work out with. But on the other side, when you’re trying to build a brand, giving away really good content that people can really use in their life, and that they can find value in.

Jeniffer Cohen:

Yes, it’s a combination.

Jeniffer Cohen:

You’re asking the wrong person. I am hardly a social media expert. Let me just tell you that right now, I’m not a social media expert. I’m a little bit all over the place in that sense, because I do… I’m not… I don’t listen to the directions that I’m typically given in terms of that because that’s not… My Instagram, my social media isn’t really the way I monetize my business. If you’re trying to monetize your business using social media, there’s a whole other list of things that you should be doing. What I do know, and what I do believe, and me having a following is actually a byproduct of all the other things that I do. But I will say, there is a blend of having I think authenticity, showing who you really are is so key.

I think, for me, I’m pretty much what you see is what you get. You know what I mean? That’s why sometimes it looks like vomit on there. I do a little bit of this. But it’s real, and it’s authentic, and that’s who I personally am. I think that people respect and appreciate that. I did a TED talk a year ago. It was called the secret to getting anything you want in life. It went viral. We’ve had millions of views. I remember after doing that TED Talk, when I did the TED Talk, I was so disappointed in myself. I got off the stage, and I said to my husband, “Oh, my gosh, I forgot two huge pieces of information, two big paragraphs that I really wanted to nail down, nail home to bring home my message. A baby was crying in the background. There was a wrong slide that the guy put on, and it was kind of like a hot mess in a way.

And so, I’m like, “Nobody’s going to want to watch this. No one’s going to really do it.” And then at the end of the day to my complete amazement, I could not to this day, I cannot believe how well it’s doing. I mean, people really love this TED Talk. I think part of why it connected to so many people besides the message, which the message is, in my opinion, it’s authentic to me, and I believe the message to be so true for anybody trying to pursue and optimise their life, both personally and professionally. But the reason why I think people really gravitated to it or liked it because it had thousands and thousands of comments is because it was real. It wasn’t polished. It wasn’t perfect. And there’s beauty in imperfection. I had notes written on my hand, and I was all over the place, and people can resonate with that.

I think that when people are trying too hard to put up this certain persona, and thing which is all what Instagram and social media really is. You lose that authenticity, you lose that rawness, and I think if you’re trying to grow your brand, if you’re trying to really stand out, the best way to stand out is to stand out by being who you are and being yourself and not trying to be something perfect because there’s no beauty and perfection. No one can relate to that. It worked for that… A lot of the comments are like, I think people really kind of like, “Oh, my God, that would’ve happened to me. I bet you if I was up there, that would happen.” And there’s that relatability that I think people really crave in life, you know?

Jeniffer Cohen:

It has.

Jeniffer Cohen:

I totally agree with you. I think it’s very disarming when you see somebody in a situation where they’re just like you. They’re sitting in front of a computer with their dog barking in the background, and we’re all sitting here doing this thing with a microphone in front of the computer. It’s very disarming. It’s very much levelling the playing field. There is something to be said for that.

But with that being said as well, like I said from the beginning of this podcast, I think there is nothing that replaces personal connection, face-to-face interaction with me to build relationships, to build connections. There’s only so much you can do and you miss out on a lot of nuance when you’re on a computer like that. But I know what you’re saying, and your point is 100% valid, which is the fact that we’re all sitting here with our dogs and our kids and my kid. There’s been bazillions of times when I’m doing some serious meeting, and I’m trying to be all professional, and my six-year-old kid walks in, mommy, screaming, and pulling on my hair. I mean, you’re kind of like, it is what it is, right? If you have kids, you laugh, and you understand, and it creates a bond right there. Yeah, that’s happened to me.

Jeniffer Cohen:

Well, because, remember, I’m old, right? So, social media, I was already doing my thing way before Instagram was even involved with anything or Facebook and all that. But my whole thing started very differently. I started with being in a totally different business. I was in the music business. I was running marketing for a record label. And I’m Canadian, and I got a job offer to come to LA where I live now, and am working for a different label. And when you go from country to country as maybe you know or don’t know, but you are on a working visa. And so, you can only work for that one company legally. So when I left, when I was working with Sony I decided to leave the music business, I had really no other way to make money. So I thought, I’m going to become a personal trainer in the meantime until I figure out what I want to do with my life.

And then when I got my first training certification, through that process I figured, you know what, I’m going to go back to the areas where I have relationships, which is in the music world. And I basically just created my own job opportunity. I created this idea, and I pitched myself to the head of the label that I had the relationship with as being a label trainer, which really didn’t exist. I was making it up. I’m like, “How about this? I know how your money is being spent in marketing. You have all these artists on your roster who need to be fit, get in shape for their videos, or for their tours. Let me be that trainer. I know how the talent works.” And the guy’s like, “What are you talking about? What? You are going to be our trainer?” I’m like, “Yeah, I am going to be your trainer because I know…” I explained to him why and how, and he’s like, “Okay, fine, we’re going to give you a chance.”

And so he gave me that chance. And then, thankfully it worked out. I was put on retainer, so it was never capped at an hourly position, which I didn’t want for myself. And then one label turned into having two labels, turned into having three labels, where then I had to hire a bunch of trainers underneath me, which then, of course, became my business. So, I’ve always been very much an entrepreneur and I’m very much about a person who likes to work for themselves, and to kind of like I eat what I kill, or kill what I eat, or whatever. I’m okay with that. And so, that was how I started into the whole entrepreneurial business stuff. I just chose to do it in the fitness space.

And so how I started to build my brand was different. Social, there were always influencers, but it was a different type of influencer. Then it was about famous celebrities, and rock stars, and actors carrying around or wearing your clothes or carrying around these things. And the gossip magazines will take pictures with the paparazzi, like the US Weeklies and the Life & Style. And so, that’s how it started happening. So I was technically very close to all these very famous people, because I train them. So then companies would send me stuff. So then clothing and shoes, so that these people would see me wearing it, and therefore maybe they would want it or they would send it to me so they would wear it. And so, that’s how it worked back then. And so, then if they were wearing a Nike hoodie, then they would have a paparazzi guy take a picture of them as they’re walking to their car. And that’s how things became like that. So there was always that business as an influencer. It just was very, very different back then because we didn’t have social media.

So, I guess technically, I was an influencer back then. I would wear something and then someone else would be like, “Hey, I like that.” Or they would send it to me or whatever else. But that’s how it worked back then. But anyway, my point is, when I was doing all this stuff, I ended up getting a book deal with a company and I decided to call my first book, No Gym Required. And I wanted to give people these simple, easy ways that they can integrate fitness and health into their life without using a gym. So, I’ve always been a huge advocate for not relying on the gym to be healthier fit. And there’s never an excuse. To me if someone says, “Oh, I can’t go to the gym today.” Well, that to me isn’t an excuse for you not to take care of yourself or exercise. To me, there’s no magic pill by going to the gym.

The best way to actually be healthy to be fit is really using the basics like watching what you’re eating. That’s not at the gym. Basic bodyweight moves, and a little bit of cardio, walking around your block, doing some squats, doing some push ups, you didn’t need to use the gym. So, I did my book. And then I decided to say, “Well, you know, I named it something where I can build an entire company.” And then that’s when I started building… I had a shoe company at the time. I created a shoe called the NGR fit shoe, which was an interchangeable weighted midsole that you can put in and out of the shoe that helps you burn up to 25% more calories because you’re adding that resistance, that weight to your shoes. And so, that was my big first entry into the world of products or brands. And so, that’s how I started and from there, it just went from there.

Jeniffer Cohen:

It’s called Habits & Hustle for a reason. Well, I think the problem is, and I’m not excluded from this. I think that we all tend… Women, especially, men don’t do this as much, but women especially usually undervalue themselves in the workspace. They will undervalue how much money they should be making, and if somebody offers them something, they’ll take it. They won’t negotiate on their own behalf. They feel guilty, they feel bad, they don’t want to hurt someone’s feelings. And so, I’m not really any different. The only thing that makes it different is called practise. I think that over time what you do… I saw, I would be a victim of that myself. And then I think over time, I just practise not doing it to where it became my new normal.

If you want to know the truth, maybe my retainer should have been three, five times what I actually asked for, right? But because I was nervous and insecure, had doubts, I doubted myself, I low balled myself, as opposed to saying to the person, “How much would you pay me a month?” I said, “I’ll do it for this much a month.” So, giving basically a great tip is never ever putting the number out first. Let the other person who is going to be paying you make their first offer because probably nine out of 10 times they’re going to say a number that’s higher than the one that you would say for yourself, especially if you’re a woman.

Jeniffer Cohen:

I would have been better. I’d be better, I hope. But I think that still, yeah, I will be better. But I still think it’s my nature. I think its nature, women’s nature in general to second guess that idea that you have that emotional piece sometimes that gets in the way. So, yeah, but I think you get over it by doing it over and over and over again and practising it. And finding ways to value yourself. I think knowing your value is incredibly important. And so, there’s lots of different ways to feel that. It’s bringing that value to yourself. Let yourself be open to having that value as opposed to the opposite.

Jeniffer Cohen:

Well, this is what I think is really important, and I talk about this quite a bit with people. I think having self-awareness is really, really key. Because I think that knowing what you’re good at. Also, knowing what you’re bad at is really important. And focusing on those strengths really helps build your confidence. And once you focus on those strengths, and you start having small wins like action, I think you start moving. Instead of sitting stagnant and thinking about so much stuff, the best way to build confidence is to move, is to have action. So, have smaller wins, and focus on what you know you’re good at as opposed to worrying about what you’re bad at. I think overthinking things is really detrimental, too. Sometimes it’s good just to act and not think so much.

I also think that it’s trial and error. I think if you don’t really know what you’re good at, and you don’t really know what you’re bad at, start trying a lot of shit. And you will find out pretty quickly. I think overall, though, I think also if you’re following what you actually genuinely like to do is really a good testament. I think that I am very… I’m not great with administrative stuff, paperwork, and spreadsheets. That’s just not my strength. So, if I do that, then I get really… It diminishes my confidence because I’m bad at it. And I’m seeing myself not do very well over and over and over again versus if I did something that I am good at. And I kept on doing those things over and over again, it builds my confidence. And therefore, I go after things that I know I’m good at, and I know my value with it.

Jeniffer Cohen:

It doesn’t happen through thinking.

Jeniffer Cohen:

Because people get so stuck in the thinking and what if this? What if that happens? I don’t know. And by the time you figure it out, it’s three years later and you’re still nowhere else. You’re still sitting in the same spot you were in versus acting. At least if you acted and you failed you may have pushed yourself a little further at least. You can take five steps forward and three steps back. You still are two steps forward.

Jeniffer Cohen:

Right?

Jeniffer Cohen:

Well, it depends. It depends on what you’re talking about. There’s a lot of people out there, and I’m not talking about people who are doing fitness. I’m talking about people who are very fit, very well known, but they’re not monetizing their fitness when I know that they clearly have a lifestyle for it. So there’s a lot of people who I speak with, or I see, and they have a lot of followers who are very interested in them, and what they’re doing day to day. And part of what they’re doing day to day is they really have a passion and a genuine authentic interest in wellness and fitness. They’re working out on their page already. They are doing all sorts of different wellness hacking tools. They’re doing the Red Lion. They’re doing the saunas. They’re going on hikes. They’re going on jogs. They’re working on their trainers. To me, it’s like they’re doing it already.

So then, and when they’re authentic about it then I think, then what I do is, I try to build a business around it either by doing a workout platform with them, or finding out what exactly… Trying to hone in on exactly what their biggest passion and interest is, what they’re the most interested in doing. And then we try to create businesses around that. Like the Ryan thing was an example that where I know other people, too, other celebrities who were working out all the time, and people want to work out with them. But they’re just, they’re not. So, then that would be another person where we go with, we would do a platform for them where people can work out with them for a subscription based model where for $10 a month you can now work out with me and do what I’m doing.

To me, that’s how you would monetize it, or you do another type of… You could do a supplement based on what they’re taking, and you create an actual brand and a business around them versus just them doing what they normally would do. Say, an actress who makes their money as an actor by doing movies or whatever else. But now they can build a brand by having products, having services, having some of their content be really streamlined to more fitness or health, or wherever that is. And they are now becoming a business brand, in addition to just being… Not just, but doing whatever they’re doing. [crosstalk 00:38:02]. I want to say one more thing. The reason for that is you have a built-in audience for it. So, if you already have a million people following you already, but a real audience, an engaged audience, and you’re not doing anything with that to monetize it then that’s where the opportunity becomes an opportunity.

Jeniffer Cohen:

That’s what we do.

Jeniffer Cohen:

That would be one of them. That would be a first step if the person really is a fitness person. There’s other people I work with who they’re very hardcore health experts. And they work out like a dog every day, but they don’t really want to be doing a fitness platform because their focus is much more on the sustainability of the environment, and what you’re eating, what’s being put in the soil. Where do you get the most nutrients?

So, everybody, I don’t ever pigeonhole somebody into one specific spot. It truly does because I am a big believer in authenticity, and I always go back to the same thing, authenticity, authenticity, and authenticity. I’m not going to make somebody do a digital fitness platform, even though they work out constantly, when that’s not what they want to be spending their time and energy on. When they have a deeper passion within their health space, they’re just not doing anything with it. So, my job, my rule is to really get out of somebody with their real true heart passion is in that, under the health umbrella, and then help them create and monetize the true brand and business under that for it to come to life.

Jeniffer Cohen:

Not always, but you know what, sometimes you can monetize it by you can be a really good source of information, and people where they want to see you over and over again. So maybe you write a book. Maybe you write a book about it, and you can start that, and then you have some credibility. You can start doing speaking engagements, motivational speaking on it, or corporate speaking. There’s always ways to build on someone’s brand, but everybody is so individual that it’s really, really hard. That’s why, again, I’m going to go back to not just authenticity, that’s one, but also knowing your strengths, and knowing your weaknesses, what you really stand for, what you’re really passionate about is another one, and to stay true to those things.

Align yourself with partners who are in similar alignment as you, who have the same goals as you, who see your vision, who want to expand on that vision. I don’t think it’s about a one size fits all approach. Everybody has a different thing. Now, remember, we’re talking about people who are celebrities. Let’s take it down to a micro level, people who are trying to build a brand who are not Angelina Jolie, I’m just making it up, or whoever it is, Brad Pitt, whatever. I think it’s more difficult when you’re not a big name, obviously, to build a brand. So, let’s talk about how people can build a brand again, and hone in on those messages because I think it’s more important for your listener to really get that stuff so they can integrate these things into their life.

Authenticity, finding your strengths and weaknesses, being self-aware, doing what you’re really good at. These things, finding a niche, narrowing down what that is, really giving people great content. Also, the other thing that we didn’t talk about is not looking where the market is right now, trying to forecast where the market’s going to be in five years from now. That’s another big one. Because if everyone’s a “me-too”, I’ll do that too because they’re doing it. I’ll do that because they are doing it. Try to think a little bit outside that box of if this is trending now, where does that lead to? If A equals B equals C, you know what I mean? Try to think a little bit ahead of where the market is going by where it is now.

Jeniffer Cohen:

I think all of the above. I think if you’re going to be someone who is giving information or trying to build a brand, don’t just… You have got to look in the future, and give people what they don’t even know even exist yet, as opposed to giving them the same thing that everyone’s giving them right now. I think you’ve got to be very cognizant, and do a lot of learning on your own to know how and what to provide, that there’s a hole in. The flaws are in the marketplace. I think spend time on that, and if you don’t know, talk to other people, seek out really good educators and experts in those areas, and glean information from them.

Jeniffer Cohen:

Absolutely.

Jeniffer Cohen:

No, I think that’s great… That’s 100%. You should schedule it like you would anything else. Because you’re right, you could have one without the other. It’s about you can’t just act, act, act, and not think. And so, in order to… You have to have goals, though, too. Write out what your goals are so that you’re working towards something, and then work backwards. Okay, if I want to get this accomplished, reverse engineer to get to that point.

Jeniffer Cohen:

Absolutely. I agree with that 100%.

Jeniffer Cohen:

It’s about being bold. It’s about asking for what you want. It’s about chasing what you want, not just taking what you get. I think that just sums everything up right there. A lot of times we get comfortable and okay with what’s good enough in front of us, as opposed to chasing what we actually really desire, and we really want. And it’s about really living in that statement a little bit because that’s really the mission statement. When we look for a job, a lot of us tend to see what’s online on LinkedIn versus just honing in on the one company that we really wanted to work with and going after them.

I think there’s… And that’s where the action comes into play. And so, my entire talk is about the 10% target, which is making these 10 attempts to get anything you want in life. And the idea behind it is you may not get that exact goal. But another opportunity will present itself that you didn’t even know existed by just going through that process. I’ve learned that myself time and time again. Again, it’s about practise. I don’t want to give away the whole thing. People should go listen to it.

Jeniffer Cohen:

Right, but that’s the gist of it, and I think that anybody who is in a transition in their life, or just starting out and not knowing exactly what to do. I think they really shouldn’t listen to it because I believe that there are a lot of things about it that I think that’s why it’s done well is because it’s hit home on a lot of different things like that. I think that it’s very, very important. We have only one life, make the best of it, self-actualize, and optimise as much as you possibly can, and not get stuck in that self-doubt, fear of failure, that we all seem to do so often.

Jeniffer Cohen:

What do I mean by being bold? I mean, “put yourself out there” is really the best way to put it. Don’t be afraid to put yourself in a situation that you may not win at. Don’t be afraid to ask the question. Don’t be afraid of what the answer might be. It’s about just being out there again and in your truth and your own authenticity in your life, and going after what it is that you want. And not shrinking and shrivelling yourself up and taking whatever is around you and accepting that. That’s like in anything. I’ll even take it to a place of how many times we have gone out with a person as a girl when a guy asks you out, we’ll go out for the person who asks us out versus be like, “I really like that guy, but I’m too scared to ask him out.”

So, then I’ll just go out with this Joe Schmo because he asked me, and then what happens if you end up marrying that person because it was the guy who asked you out versus was that really the person you really had an interest in? Maybe, maybe not, but at least know your options. Go out there and at least go after who may or may not be someone that you wanted to go out with. He may say no, he may not be able to go out with you, whatever it is, but never… I’d rather live in a situation where I am rejected than living in a place of regret. That’s all.

Jeniffer Cohen:

Exactly.

Jeniffer Cohen:

Yes, I agree.

Jeniffer Cohen:

Exactly. Hence, the title. The secret to getting anything… The secret isn’t such a secret. The idea is there’s a beauty in the simplicity of it, too, because people try to overcomplicate the most simple things.

Jeniffer Cohen:

I’m actually writing a new book right now on this topic, but it won’t be out for a long time. But I think that they can follow me on Instagram @therealjencohen.com. I have a website, jennifercohen.com. I think that’s good. I mean, that’s all… Oh, they should listen to my podcast, Habits & Hustle.

Jeniffer Cohen:

Yeah, yeah. And I mean, that’s great. Those are three good ones.

Jeniffer Cohen:

Absolutely. It was really nice to meet you.