How to find your passion and leverage it for growth

Janet Bray Attwood:

When you get so clear inside, as if you can see this beautiful painting of your life, then that’s when you start to, what I call, become a manifestation magnet where the people, places or things start to show up. It’s all about clarity. Clarity is power.

What the passion does is it helps you to get more clarity. And one of the things that we say in The Passion Test is when you are clear, what you choose to have show up in your life. And only to the extent that you’re clear that clarity is power.

Every single exercise, it’s really a fun process because it’s all about you. It’s all about you getting clear on the things that matter most to you. See, we all have this perfect syndrome. I have to be perfect, but no one likes perfect. Who likes perfect? Perfect is boring, awful, aggravating, frustrating and get me away from that person.

But perfect as I am, what self love is, and this is what all of us. When you really track back, Alex, every single goal that you have, every passion that you have, why it matters, you’ll always track back to what you want to do is just love. It’s always the same thing. So, why don’t you just cut to the chase and really start to love yourself? Because as you treat, you treat everyone.

By really taking a look at what that inner critic says, I call that standing in the fire of your own discomfort because you have to take a real honest … Look, what do you do to you that blocks the real you?

Janet Bray Attwood:

Welcome. I’m so happy to be with you.

Janet Bray Attwood:

Yeah. Are you kidding me? No. I’m just kidding. The Passion Test, it’s one exercise after the other after the other after the other, that gets you so crystal clear that you can actually see the world you choose to create.

What I mean by that is, when you get so clear inside, as if you can see this beautiful painting of your life, then that’s when you start to, what I call, become a manifestation magnet where the people, places or things start to show up. It’s all about clarity. Clarity is power.

What The Passion Test does is it helps you to get more clarity. And one of the things that we say in The Passion Test is when you are clear, what you choose to have will show up in your life. And only to the extent that you’re clear that clarity is power. So, every single exercise … It’s really a fun process, because it’s all about you. It’s all about you getting clear on the things that matter most to you.

Janet Bray Attwood:

Yeah.

Janet Bray Attwood:

Well, sometimes your goals can be passions. What I really say to people is that your passions are the things that get you out of bed in the morning. Maybe your passion is to be a world renowned podcast interviewer. A goal might be that, “Okay, this year, I’m going to interview 100 of the top transformational leaders.” A goal is what you do in order for that passion to become realised. Does that make sense?

Janet Bray Attwood:

Yeah. Your passion, as I just said, it’s what you love and care about. It’s not rocket science, it’s very simple. There’s a quote in The Passion Test book. What you love and God’s will for you is one in the same. And when I say God, nature, higher power, the universe, unified field, whatever name you want to put the energy that’s greater than yourself.

When you start to align with that energy, then what you do is you start to get clear. You see, living a passionate life isn’t personal. I don’t think anyone ever talks about it like this. I’ve had over 25 years in the field of passion and what I’ve come to realise is that passion, what it really is, it’s about getting so quiet that you get to hear the marching orders of the general manager of the universe for you.

We’ve all heard, or many of us have heard from science something called the unified field, and all of us are part and parcel of this unified field. In other words, it’s like we each have a role to play. So, living a passionate life, again, is not personal. It’s about actually getting clear so that you can be of service to the rest of humanity. How are you of greatest service to humanity by sharing the gifts, the things that you care about most, the things that you love the most? That’s how I define passion and living a passionate life.

Janet Bray Attwood:

Many of your listeners, I’m sure, know Jack Canfield, because you told me that you have a lot of entrepreneurs listening to me. Jack Canfield is the phenomenally successful co-author of the Chicken Soup for the Soul series, which is in the Guinness Book of World Records. He has a whole series of successes.

Actually, when I gave Jack The Passion Test, at first he thought, “I don’t know. Do I need it?” But what he realised … See, in The Passion Test, we don’t just focus on the career. Career is just one of the areas. Maybe some people know their passion in the area of their career, but in the area of their relationships, it’s nowhere. That’s where their life feels like they’re suffering.

I mean, all of us have heard about millionaires and billionaires that jumped out of a window. Now, they might have had their career down, but other parts of their life, maybe their relationships, their spirituality, having fun, they didn’t have the balance in their life.

In The Passion Test, what we have people do, and everyone can do this, it’s a very first exercise. We start with this one very simple sentence, which I had Jack Canfield do. When my life is ideal, I am. When my life is ideal, I am. And then what you want to do is you want to think about the areas of your life that are important. Health, spirituality, fun, career, relationships, your environment.

Where are you living? Are you living in the mountains, at the ocean? How does your house feel? You walk into my house, I have a big tree in the middle of the front room. My house feels like you walked into a beautiful temple. And I always tell everybody, “Look, your house should be so intimate to you that when you walk into your home, you feel like you’re getting healed, because it’s your home.”

Anyway, so we have people focus on all these different areas, and ask themself the question, “When my life is ideal, I am.” And then what we do after we have them make a list of maybe 10, 15 passions, anymore after that, guess what, you’re duplicating them, you’re just writing them differently. Then what we do is we take everybody through what’s called the elimination process where we start to eliminate which feels better, this or this, this or this.

We have three questions in the elimination process to help people be able to eliminate the things that they wrote down that don’t have as much meaning for them, and come up with their top side passions. And the reason why we have them do that is because we’ve been working with these neuroscientists from the University of Pennsylvania that had done all this research and found that the mind can only contain five to seven pieces of information at any given time.

And Allen, I’m sure I could ask you, “Hey, do you ever feel like you’re on overload? You have too many things going on. Has that ever happened to you? Yeah. And when it does, do you notice that you’re not able to do any one thing that great?” And I know what the answer is, because I’ve asked thousands of people around the world that.

What would it be like if you knew what your top five passions are, and you’ve consistently chosen in favour of those top five passions? What do you think your role would be like when you got really clear? Yep, these are them. What do you think?

Janet Bray Attwood:

Well, yeah, because you never know. Your passions are like breadcrumbs that lead you onto the path of your destiny. I mean, think about this, Oprah loves to talk. When Oprah–

Janet Bray Attwood:

So, Oprah might put, “When my life is ideal, I’m talking to all kinds of people.” Well, this is why I always tell everybody, don’t judge anybody’s passions, because you never know what door it’s going to open. I mean, how many people have I heard from that have told me, “I was doing this because I didn’t think I’d make any money. It was just kind of a sidebar. I thought it would be fun to do. And the next thing I know, that’s what I’m doing.”

Because life is here to enjoy. Life is not here to annoy. Honestly, all of our job, and this is what I’ve seen and what makes sense to me is for each and every one of us, in order for each of us to give maximum is to get clear on what matters most to you. The only thing that gets in the way of any of us being able to live a passionate life are our limiting beliefs about ourselves, our false ideas, our false concepts. I’m not good enough, smart enough, rich enough, blah-blah-blah. That… is a block.

Janet Bray Attwood:

Yeah. I mean, a limiting belief is simply maybe you have a passion to be a famous actress. A limiting belief might be I’m too old, I’m too fat, I’m too ugly, I’m too stupid. I don’t know the right people. It’s what we are when we have these insecurities from within, and we start making these limiting beliefs real. Those limiting beliefs become like a brick wall if they stop us every time from being able to go out there and truly burn it up out in the world.

One of the things that is my expertise is to help people to undo their limiting beliefs so that they can just go at whatever it is that they choose to do, because here’s the reason why it’s so important. The universe doesn’t play trips. It’s not a mistake that you love what you love. It’s not a mistake that you love what you love.

Have you ever had the thought now … All right, entrepreneurs. I know I sound like the spiritual, passionate woman, but my whole background is in corporate. I spent years and years. My last job, I was running the marketing division for a company that sold Reader’s Digest for $380 million, and I have 40 marketers underneath me.

I have this way corporate background, and every one of my employees that worked for me, I would absolutely insist that they take The Passion Test, because why? Because when you’re clear about what you care about, then what it does in terms of career, it gets rid of the noise. In other words, and especially if I have any … Right now, if there are any people that run a human resource department, you absolutely want to learn this Passion Test, because why? Because there are so many companies now that give The Passion Test to prospective employees to see, “Wow, are they really coming because they’re passionate? Or is this just a JOB for them, which is a just over broke job, a money based decision?”

It’s a very, very cool tool. What I’ve seen as I’ve come out of this corporate world is that talking about limiting beliefs and helping people and do those limiting beliefs allows them to be able to give their maximum. Give maximum. That’s it.

Janet Bray Attwood:

Well, yeah. I mean, I don’t know if they’ve ever put a name to it, but that’s what causes you pain, separation and suffering, your limiting beliefs. I mean, think about this. Here’s a guy who wants to do a podcast, but he has a stutter. With your limiting belief, you can never do what you want to do. What was so great about what you did was you just took action, which is a great thing, but most people, what first they need to do is they need to put a little attention on undoing their limiting beliefs.

One of the exercises that I have and you mentioned in the very beginning that I teach mastery of self love is that I have people take a look at what is your inner critic. Your inner critic is also your limiting belief. Your limiting belief about yourself, it’s very personal.

Everyone that I’ve run into has an inner critic. It’s that terrorism of the mind when they pass by a mirror, or when they’re on their way to do something that really super matters to them. And they know that if anybody open up their brain and saw what their mind was thinking, they’d go, “Whoa, you? That?”

And what we do is thoughts are things. And if we’re always entertaining that inner critic, what it does is it creates this neural pathway, a negative neural pathway. It’s like a groove, and it becomes automatic. And we start to think that, that limiting belief is who I am. But the truth of the matter is, we all came in here.

When we first arrived, if anyone can remember, it was like, “Hey, yo, I’m love. I am love. I am light, I’m whole, I’m complete. I don’t need anything more.” And yet, what happens is life happens. And then when life happens, what happens is that maybe you’ve been sexually abused. You start to put a veil around your heart for protection. Or maybe like you, I bet when you were little you might have been bullied. Were you ever bullied by kids say …

Janet Bray Attwood:

Yeah, kids can be brutal. Aren’t they? They’re brutal. What happens, when you’re little, you start to think there’s something wrong with you. You do all these things to mask it, but what happens, there’s this silent voice inside. “I’m not good enough. I’m not enough. I’ll never be okay. I’m broken, whatever.” And this is what we all do.

Every single person on this planet has had their moments. And unless you start to undo those things, those moments, they live inside of you, and it can start when you’re young. You can just track it all the way to 70, 80, 90 years old how you’ve spent your whole life in protection.

What I have people do is I have people take a look at what is your most dominant inner critic. Maybe it’s I’m not good enough. Maybe it’s I’m not enough. Or as I said before, I’m not educated enough, or I have a stutter, whatever. All of you listening, what you could do right now is write down three things that you know you say to you when no one else can hear. But you know, when you’re faced with something that’s really important for you what comes up.

And remember, what is fear? False evidence appearing real. As Alex said, it’s not real. It’s not real, but what happens is the more that we entertain these limiting beliefs, we start to forget that we came in as light and love, inner power, we have everything we need. We don’t need to be fixed. We don’t need to be whole. We already are. And we start to believe that we are our own inner critic. And that’s how we move through the world in protection.

And then we wonder, “God, why do my relationships suck? Why aren’t I happy? What is going on here? Why aren’t I successful?” Because those limiting beliefs, and the inner critic as a limiting belief blocks us all. I tell everybody, write down three things that is your inner critic, and then circle the most dominant one. And then figure out what would be the opposite of that, because that’s actually the truth. That’s the really truth, the truth of who you really are is you are …

I call it your self love mantra, because what you have to do in order to silence that inner critic is you have to replace it with a second element, something that is greater than that inner critic, which is the opposite of that. For instance, maybe your inner critic says, “I’m not good enough.” And your self love mantra would be, “I’m perfect, just as I am.” It’s not saying you’re perfect. I’m perfect just as I am.

See, we all have this perfect syndrome. I have to be perfect, but no one likes perfect. Who likes perfect? Perfect is boring, awful aggravating, frustrating and get me away from that person. But perfect, as I am, what self love is, and this is what all of us … When you really track back, Alex, every single goal that you have, every passion that you have, why it matters, you’ll always track back to what you want to do is just love. It’s always the same thing. So, why don’t you just cut to the chase and really start to love yourself? Because as you treat, you treat everyone.

By really taking a look at what that inner critic says, I call that standing in the fire of your own discomfort, because you have to take a real honest look. What do you do to you that blocks the real you? The more we say that inner critic, the more we start to believe that, that’s me and my self love mantra. No, that feels weird to say. That feels so awful.

Janet Bray Attwood:

Exactly.

Janet Bray Attwood:

Yeah. Well, number one, you just do it, number one. Do it and don’t take my word for it. You be your own test tube and what you’ll find is that the world is as you are. The world is as you are. Notice this that everything, everyone, everything is just a reflection of your own inner self.

When you start to know yourself deeply, you start to realise how efficient nature is and how every single moment matters. What I tell people, “Don’t listen to me. What do I know?” Practise it just every time you become aware that you’re entertaining that inner critic, which is what’s causing you pain separation and suffering. I mean, have a ball with that one. Continuing on with that, you can just stay on that hamster wheel. Or then you be your own test tube and replace it with what I call from my mastery of self love programme, your self love mantra, and really be vigilant with it.

Really be vigilant. The minute you become aware that you’re entertaining that negative inner critic, then replace it with that positive opposite. And what you’ll find, and this is what so many people have found. I had a student, he came to me and he said, “Janet, four days of being with you after I’m doing my inner critic and just saying my self love mantra, I feel like I can do anything.”

And the story for him was that he was from Mexico. And his mother got pregnant out of wedlock. So, his whole life, he heard that you’re a mistake. “Oh, honey, you’re a mistake. You’re a mistake.” So, he had this really negative groove of feeling like he wasn’t even supposed to be here, that he was a mistake.

He had to take responsibility that … That was said while he was young. But then what he did was he continued on with it. “I’m a mistake, I made a mistake.” And everything in his life always reflected that he couldn’t hold down a job, he couldn’t have good relationships. He felt like he was always a failure. That he wasn’t good enough, smart enough, rich enough, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

And after just doing this silly little exercise truly and replacing with your mistake, with simply I matter. On the fourth day, he walks into my class and says, “I’ll never feel disempowered again.” He said, “I got it. I got it.” He said, “I belong here.” And everybody in the class burst out crying. I mean, it was just so impactful.

I told him, “Don’t listen to me. Don’t listen to anybody.” Do it and see for yourself, and what you’ll see is that all of a sudden, you’re starting to wake up happy for no reason. I mean, for no reason. Because why? Because thoughts are things. The world is as you are. And if you’re constantly saying all of these terrorism thoughts, it’s going to reflect out.

The mind is like a computer, garbage in, garbage out. If you’re always saying, “I’m not enough. I’m not enough. I’m not enough.” Then all of a sudden, what happens is we’re so powerful, everyone is so powerful. It’s just how are you using your power? Are you using it to create the world you choose to create? Or are you using it to create the world you don’t choose to create? It’s a choice.

What he found was that when he stopped creating the I’m a mistake to I matter, then his worlds shifted immediately. Where did it shift? It shifted where it needed to from within, and then it manifested outside of themself, and immediately started seeing that people started treating them differently.

Why? Because how you treat you is how everyone will treat you. It’s like if you have a limiting belief and you’re constantly saying, “I’m ugly, ugly, ugly, ugly, ugly.” Remember, we’re so powerful, you’re going to draw to you all the people, places, and the things to say, “Yep, you’re right. Here you are, you are ugly, because you know what, our job is to just hit on that limiting belief until you wake up. Until you wake up.”

Every moment matters. Every moment matters. There’s no moment that isn’t showing us ourself. It’s so profound. I can’t possibly be too old for anything. Every single experience had to happen just like every single breath has to happen in order for the next breath. Well, same with every experience. I’m sure people, when we were talking about passion. “Oh, God. Yeah, but I’m too old. God, I can’t do that.” Yeah. And if you think that, you’re right. But if you go for it, you see the universe doesn’t play tricks. It’s not a mistake that you love what you love.

And here again, be your own test tube. When you start to entertain those things that bring you greatest joy, what you’ll start to notice is the universe will move to bring more of that to you. More of that to you. But you have to be the one to move it. To move into that field. Does that make sense?

Janet Bray Attwood:

Yeah. This is so profound, because what you just described are the different steps to the inner critic exercise. Listen to this. The first step is to write down three things. And all of you guys listening, you just heard it out of Alex mouth. It absolutely works. There is a guy who’s been doing it, right?

Write down three things that your inner critic says whatever they are, then take a look at them and be honest and then circle the one that’s most dominant. Now, set that aside. And then Alex, what I have people do is find what I call your stop word. This is what I tell people do. Find a word that the minute you become aware that you’re thinking that negative, remember, garbage in, garbage out, the world is as you are.

So, if you’re always entertaining that negative, then that’s what you get to entertain in your life. And as Alex said, well, that was a bummer. Why don’t I try the other? But find your stop word. My stop word is cancel. The minute I become aware that I’m thinking a negative, the way the reason why you want to stop word is because then what you do is you don’t give power to it. No power, it’s like snuffing it out.

So, Alex, I have all kinds of students. Their different stop words are delete, out of here, scram, ridiculous, impossible. Find a stop word like Alex says as his stop, very simple. And then replace it with the opposite. The opposite, and what you’ll find at first, you’re going to feel stupid.

Janet Bray Attwood:

Yeah, that is so good.

Janet Bray Attwood:

Yeah. You’ll feel like a real fake. “God, this is a waste of my time. I can’t do this.” But look around and what you’ll notice if you really decide, “Okay, I’m going to give it a month. I’m going to really give it a month. I’m going to do that much for me and see what happens in my life.”

And look for the evidence. The evidence is the negative people those that aren’t your cheering squad are going to move out of your life. And people that are really your cheering squad will move in. As I said, you’ll wake up happy for no reason. Your mind will become more orderly. You’ll start to become this manifestation magnet limiting beliefs, and that’s what your inner critic is. It’s a massive limiting belief that just completely blocks your ability to create what you choose, to manifest what you choose to create.

And Alex, you said something so interesting. Well, this is a business podcast. They’re all business people here. But look, I ran a big marketing division I told you about. I didn’t have this exercise in, but if I could go backwards, are you kidding me? Every single person. I did all the corporate training for our corporation. Every single person would have this exercise, because think about it. When you go to hire someone for a job, you’re not going, “You know what, I want to pick the most depressed, unhappy person.” They’d just be a blast to work with. This is powerful stuff.

Now, this is self love 101. Self love 101, and honestly, I haven’t met one transformational leader in all my years that didn’t need to take a look at their own inner critic. Try to stay open. That’s one of the secrets to living a passionate life is to stay open to what is appearing now.

If you’re on this call, if you’re listening to this, there’s no mistakes. There’s no mistake. No moment is wasted. Now, be honest with yourself, and do what Alex did and stand in the fire of your own discomfort and grab the bull by the horns and go, “Okay, you know what, I’m tired of suffering in this area.”

And it may be your area of your relationships, but it may not be your career. That may be just fine, but maybe you wake up every morning and you think, “God, my life isn’t any fun.” That right there. “God, my life isn’t any fun.”

If you’re on this call, it says so much about you already. You’re already conscious. How do I know? Because Alex is conscious, and you’re on this call. It’s Labour Day weekend in the United States. If you’re in the United States, man, you really got this, because there’s been in your time here trying to know yourself, because everything is about yourself. So, everything matters and everything …

I always crack up, Alex, when someone says, “Oh, but we’re a corporate audience.” Really? I take myself wherever I go. I take myself wherever I go. There’s no separation. Wherever I can upgrade, it’s going to affect every single area of my life. Every area. So, if I want to be someone that the team goes, “I want her.” Or if I want to be able to have that next level up, it’s going to be because I walk in, I know who I am, I’m happy, I love what I do, I care about others, because I care about me, done deal.

Janet Bray Attwood:

One of the things that can help you to be able to get off the horse cart and take a jet plane, I’ve been practising … I’m actually a teacher of transcendental meditation for over 50 years. And what I found is that many people don’t understand the purpose of meditation. They think its, “Om, shanti, shanti. Oh, is that a good experience??”

But really, the real purpose of meditation, transcendental … Transcendental, what does that mean? It means to go beyond the thinking process to experience finer and finer levels of the thinking process until you transcend the mind altogether, transcend thought.

What’s going on at the same time is that the mind is getting a very, very profound, deep state of rest. And what science has found is that the only thing that gets in the way of anyone being able to really enjoy their life is this deep rooted stress.

When you get this profound deep state of rest, it’s more profound. And this is what all the research has found. Eight hours of deep sleep. And what happens when you get this profound deep rest is that any deep rooted stresses that you have start undoing themselves.

I always tell everybody, “Find a meditation practise that is transcendental.” It’s not just transcendental meditation, but any meditation practise that takes your mind, your awareness within. There are types of meditation that hold your awareness on the mind. Concentration and contemplation are more on the surface level. Because why? You’re staying here on this very, very surface of the mind.

But when you transcend and you go in, what happens during that deep rest is you undo these deep rooted stresses, and that’s when you’re taking a jet plane. Because why? It’s the stress that slows everything down.

And so, if you really want to start to enjoy and do less, accomplish more, then add that onto your life. Because why? Because it takes a lot of consciousness to notice your thoughts. Have you not noticed that it takes a lot of awareness? So, the quieter the mind is, the more you’re able to hear, to listen to what you’re doing. Are you entertaining those limiting beliefs? Or are you entertaining thoughts that are drawing you to towards being able to be of greatest service to humanity?

What meditation does is a quiet mind down. The more you get rid of this deep rooted stress, the more quiet the mind becomes. And then you have this deep silence from within even during very, very powerful activity. You have this inner silence always going on.

So, every year, I always do a big teleseminar and I tell people there are four things. Four things that I do. One is if I could only keep one thing, it would be my meditation practise. I mean, bar none, that’s the thing that I really feel has given me more than anything.

Next is to undo my limiting beliefs. There’s a great process. All of you can go to it. It’s www.thework.com. It’s this wonderful, wonderful process by a great friend of mine named Byron Katie to help you to undo these negatives that you’ve been holding on to your whole life. And some of them are so deep that you don’t even know.

Alex, you said, “I don’t even know I’m doing them, but I know my life is screwed up.” And then the next thing is take The Passion Test. Why not? It’s the number one tool being used all over the world to get clear on what you’re passionate about. To really stand up and say, “This is what I care about. This is what matters.” That’s a real practise of self love.

I say to everybody, if you’re not living a passionate life, then look again, because you’re affecting everyone around you by the choices that you’re making in every given moment. And then the last thing I like is that many years ago, I interviewed this man and met him in Japan. His name is Wahei Takeda. Wahei is no longer on the planet but he lived pretty old. He was like 84 before he passed away.

Wahei was one of the most successful small investors in all of Japan. He was a gazillionaire. Wahei created this programme called Maro Up. Maro Up is just simply about seeing the good in all things. He had this whole practise of going into the forest, because when you go into the forest you become more aware of nature.

Alex, do you notice that when you go into nature, you become more expanded. Go to sacred spots, go to sacred places like churches, religious areas, or beautiful temples, you notice that you get that … You feel something. You feel more expanded. He’s the thing where we connected to do what moves you. That was to live your passion.

He had all these 10 ways, but he said you could just jump to the chase, cut to the chase by being in gratitude. By being in gratitude, because what you’ll notice is that it’s not possible to think negatively when you’re being in gratitude. And all of us can do that at any moment.

What Wahei told me was that he practise being grateful 1,000 times a day. He said he cured himself of two illnesses just by being grateful. I think that was so profound. Just being grateful. I don’t know about that, but he was absolutely one of the brightest, happiest, most successful people in Japan. And he was like a magnet to be around, because why? Well, every moment is a choice, and he was always choosing in favour of what matters most to me. And thank you for that moment, and thank you for that moment. It’s something we all can do.

Janet Bray Attwood:

What’s the opposite of a limiting belief?

Janet Bray Attwood:

The opposite of a limiting belief is all possibilities.

Alex Cleanthous:

All possibilities, right?

Alex Cleanthous:

Yeah. And that is the goal, that is the place to get to. The confidence and the mindset to know that, that is a possibility, and to go for it and to take action. I think this has been a great conversation, because we got to talk about things that I don’t normally talk about on this podcast. This is why I keep talking about the business side of things, because it does feel a bit more esoteric, but yet, it’s who you are. It’s who everyone is.

Everyone has something that they want to do, and everybody has stuff that they’re working on, right? And so, I think this has been a fantastic conversation. And I got to share a few stories about my life as well, which I probably haven’t shared publicly before.

Alex Cleanthous:

I think that’s a great place to end this conversation. Just quickly, if there’s one thing that you wanted the listeners or the viewers of this podcast to do, a site to visit, a book to check out. What would you like them to do?

Alex Cleanthous:

No problem, Janet. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. This has been, again, such a fabulous conversation. These are super points that are applicable to literally everyone on the planet, which is why I think there’s so many people that are doing it. But again, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today.

Alex Cleanthous:

Thanks for listening to The Growth Manifesto podcast. If you enjoy the episode, please give us a five star rating on iTunes. For more episodes, please visit growthmanifesto.com/podcast. And if you need help driving growth for your company please get in touch with us at web profits.io.