From Model to Seasoned Entrepreneur: The Story of Taryn Williams

00:00:00:03 – 00:00:18:13
Taryn W
I took it very, very seriously. I didn’t want to let people down. I had taken their money in good faith. I was willing to kill myself to deliver a result for that business. And yeah, it was it was some of the most challenging times in my life, for sure.

00:00:18:15 – 00:00:43:15
Alex C
This episode of the Growth Manifesto is a Taryn Williams. She’s the founder of Wink Models The Right Fit, the influencer agency, and recently ash gifted. In this episode, we talk about the journey of entrepreneurship, her experiences along the way from starting a service based business to launching a software app in raising funds, in raising capital, and subsequently exiting and then starting another agency, another software app.

00:00:43:17 – 00:00:45:06
Alex C
Hey, how’s it going?

00:00:45:08 – 00:00:47:00
Taryn W
I’m really well. Thank you. How are you?

00:00:47:02 – 00:00:54:10
Alex C
I’m very well. I’m very well. I’m. It’s pretty. The weather is pretty miserable up in here. Up in the Gold Coast. How is it in Sydney?

00:00:54:12 – 00:01:02:06
Taryn W
It is absolutely miserable. And I just got back from six weeks in Europe yesterday. And this was not what I signed up for at all.

00:01:02:08 – 00:01:04:17
Alex C
Yeah, yeah, yeah. How was Europe? Was it good?

00:01:04:19 – 00:01:25:06
Taryn W
It was amazing. It was really beautiful. It’s always nice to go away, get a bit of perspective. I actually every time I come back to Australia, I realize how lucky you. I mean, apart from today, we are so lucky here. We really do have amazing businesses, amazing business opportunities, amazing culture, amazing food, amazing landscape. Like, we are so blessed.

00:01:25:08 – 00:01:39:08
Alex C
Yeah for sure. I mean, I was in Europe a couple of weeks ago as well. I went to Spain, Amsterdam just for like a wedding, but was actually quite kind of cold. I mean, Amsterdam and and Paris, but it was quite hot in Spain. So anyway. But yeah, I always love coming back to Australia. It’s always really nice here.

00:01:39:08 – 00:01:56:02
Alex C
And obviously I grew up here and so did you. But let’s talk about you because you’ve had such an interesting entrepreneurial path, we’ll call it. Right. You started off as a model and then you started a modeling agency, then software companies and different stuff like that. So I figured, let’s start with that, because I’m sure there’s going to be a lot of learnings along the way.

00:01:56:02 – 00:02:07:18
Alex C
But how did you get started, like in entrepreneurship? Right. Because I think this is always the hardest part for people, especially the people that are just starting out. It’s that start. Yeah. How did you get started?

00:02:07:20 – 00:02:28:03
Taryn W
And look, I think because I started so long ago, I didn’t realize how different it was to having a traditional sort of career path. 9 to 5. Because I’d been self-employed, and working as a model, where obviously you don’t have that consistent source of income and you’re not going into same place every day, Monday to Friday, 9 to 5.

00:02:28:03 – 00:02:57:24
Taryn W
I think starting my own business didn’t seem such a stretch from that. And probably when I reflect on that, I was surrounded by a lot of very entrepreneurial people without, again, it was sort of back in the day before people talked about entrepreneurship and entrepreneurial ism. It was very much sort of small business owners, or people who were, you know, creative directors or photographers or, you know, owned restaurants in the hospitality space or owned advertising agencies and production companies.

00:02:57:24 – 00:03:19:07
Taryn W
So I think, because I was surrounded by all of these people kind of doing their own thing, and because I’ve not come from a traditional sort of 9 to 5 path, I didn’t really realize that going in and starting your own company was really probably something quite different. And especially doing it. I was 21 when I started, the modeling models modeling agency.

00:03:19:07 – 00:03:25:21
Taryn W
So doing it so young, I think was yeah, probably a little bit different now that I reflect on it.

00:03:25:23 – 00:03:40:04
Alex C
I guess this is the part that kind of happens with lots of entrepreneurs, right? Is that they have an idea. They think, well, why hasn’t this already been done? I can do it. And everyone says, are you sure you can do it? You’re like, yep, I’m over confident and I know what’s ahead, but I think I can do it right.

00:03:40:06 – 00:03:44:17
Taryn W
There’s the blissful naivety of youth. You’re like, I can do that. And then you.

00:03:44:17 – 00:03:57:21
Alex C
Start and then you find all the challenges. And so what were some of the things that you learned pretty quickly? In the beginning especially like, and this is like some time ago, but I’m sure, it’s helped kind of mold you to who you are. So it’s probably still there.

00:03:57:21 – 00:03:59:11
Taryn W
But absolutely, yes.

00:03:59:11 – 00:04:05:10
Alex C
What were some of the things that you, you know, were not aware of that you quickly had to become aware of?

00:04:05:12 – 00:04:24:12
Taryn W
Well, I mean, virtually so many things. I started Winc models on the premise that we would pay all our models within seven days, irrespective of when we got paid by clients, because I thought, gosh, it’s ridiculous that models are waiting 60 or 90 days to get paid and I can I’m going to start my own agency.

00:04:24:12 – 00:04:40:07
Taryn W
I’m going to treat everyone with decency and respect. I’m going to really, you know, be amazing for both our talent and our clients. And I’m going to grow a business at my, which is all very well and good. But I didn’t know anything about managing cash flow. So I made this commitment to paying all of our models within seven days.

00:04:40:11 – 00:04:58:14
Taryn W
Our clients are still paying us on 60 or 90 day payment terms. So the first 12 months of the business were really, really hot. I didn’t take any external investment. I just had to reinvest every single dollar back into the business and absolutely bust my gut to make sure that we could afford to honor those turns to our talent.

00:04:58:14 – 00:05:18:22
Taryn W
And the great thing was, is, whilst I didn’t set out, so this to be the reasons our models were so loyal and went so above and beyond because they still appreciated what we were doing for them as an agency. So it meant that, you know, when we had clients calling and saying, oh my God, we’ve just had this last minute thing come in, can you help with someone for today?

00:05:19:01 – 00:05:36:24
Taryn W
We had models who would turn around and go like, yeah, absolutely, we’ll drop everything and we’ll be there fully. So managing cash flow was a real baptism by fire, lent out the hard way. And then I think also, you know, when you start a business, you start it because usually you’re really passionate about something and you’re really good at a particular thing.

00:05:36:24 – 00:05:56:19
Taryn W
You’ve got deep domain expertise, maybe, but you’re not necessarily great at all of the other elements of the business. But I had this real fear that if I spent additional cash on things, you know, like bookkeeping or whatever it might be, that I one wasn’t gonna be able to afford to meet these terms that we committed to, to our talent.

00:05:56:21 – 00:06:16:11
Taryn W
And I didn’t really realize that, you know, I was actually really, like, reinvesting in the business for growth. And that was freeing my time up to do the things that I should be best at doing, like, you know, winning new business and servicing our models and onboarding more models. So I spent a lot of time trying to touch and do every single element of the business, which really prevented us from scaling.

00:06:16:11 – 00:06:31:10
Taryn W
So I think learning how to delegate, learning that invest in external resources or more headcount, whatever it might be. Yes, there’s a financial cost to that, but the opportunity cost is taking your time away from the things that you’re really good at.

00:06:31:12 – 00:06:38:04
Alex C
And I think what’s difficult about that is that, you know, you’re starting off and, you know, so you at 21 and I think I started my first business at around the same age as well.

00:06:38:04 – 00:06:39:07
Taryn W
And crazy.

00:06:39:12 – 00:06:56:17
Alex C
It’s funny how much you are so overconfident about kind of your abilities. And then how harsh the reality of the world is and how fast that you need to learn. So how did you learn so quickly? Because, you know, most people just fail, right? Like I think like the stats is, you know, it’s a four out five business as well.

00:06:56:19 – 00:07:06:22
Alex C
Yeah, I’ll say that in the first year and then the next five years after that and so on. So the chances of success are very low. So how did you figure that out? Like at that kind of time?

00:07:06:24 – 00:07:31:05
Taryn W
I think it’s two things. One, I was really doggedly determined. Like I always I talk to our team about it still now I remember sitting up at like midnight 1 a.m. just going through Google, like the first 20, 30, 40 pages of Google googling, like photographers in Sydney, production companies in Melbourne, and literally cold calling and cold emailing and putting together pitch decks.

00:07:31:05 – 00:07:53:07
Taryn W
And just like I was doggedly determined not to fail, I really put in crazy hours, crazy amounts of effort to make sure, you know, I don’t think I took a holiday or took a day off or took sick leave for, you know, five, six years. You know, I was really committed to that business. And then I think I without knowing it, I had really amazing people around me and amazing mentors.

00:07:53:07 – 00:08:12:22
Taryn W
I just met a lot of people through my journey, and anytime I met someone who I felt like I could learn from, I was really proactive in reaching out and saying, hey, I’d love to pick your brains on, you know, how you build a great company culture or how you, you know, scaled into a new state or what I should think about around these kind of things.

00:08:12:24 – 00:08:29:08
Taryn W
And I would come to the very clear gender things that I wanted to go through. And then I would make sure I would always close the loop with them and say, you know, thanks for the recommendations. I’ve gone out and bought these three books you recommended. I’ve done these two courses. I’ve X, Y, and Z. Would it be okay if we had a coffee again in three months time?

00:08:29:08 – 00:08:54:07
Taryn W
And so I didn’t sort of realize at the time that that was sort of mentoring, and I was just, again, probably annoyingly determined to get in front of these people and learn as much as I could. And then I went out and did every single course under the sun, you know, like, for, you know, these great forces at General Assembly, there was so many things that I needed to learn, and I was really willing to put my hand up and ask for help and say, like, I don’t know how to do this.

00:08:54:07 – 00:09:03:13
Taryn W
I don’t know how to get public liability insurance. Where’s the best place to go and get that? Who’s got a good mortgage broker? So there was none of that, like fake it to you make it kind of thing going on.

00:09:03:15 – 00:09:27:08
Alex C
So what do you say about the statement that if you’re an entrepreneur, you can’t help but do it anyway, right? Like you can’t really like it’s hard to teach entrepreneurship because entrepreneurship is not the skills. It’s that kind of it’s the dogged hunger that you just can’t help anyway. And your ego is secondary to your, I guess, the desire to just achieve something.

00:09:27:08 – 00:09:44:18
Alex C
Right? Because like, it sounds like. Exactly. It’s the same as every entrepreneur that I know. It’s the same thing I did like. It’s just that hunger where you can’t help but do it anyway. Like, I’d rather stay awake at night and be emailing and, you know, just doing all my outrage, understanding how insurance works and going to sleep or watching Netflix or whatever it was at the time, I guess.

00:09:44:23 – 00:09:50:11
Alex C
And so in terms of entrepreneurship, is that a like. Yes. How would you I can think of that.

00:09:50:11 – 00:10:16:23
Taryn W
Yeah. And I’ve had so many conversations over the years about like, entrepreneurs born or made because I think inherently the entrepreneurs I know. And when I speak for myself, we have such high risk appetites. We’re so tenacious. You know, the that, that grit and the ability to get through adversity and, yes, but, you know, you’re going to get knocked down nine times out of ten, but you continue getting back up.

00:10:16:23 – 00:10:38:04
Taryn W
So I think there’s all of these inherent inbuilt characteristics and traits that are common in entrepreneurs. And I look at my exactly what you’re just saying before I look at myself now. And you can’t sometimes you just can’t not do it. I see so many business opportunities or ideas. I always joke that I’ve got a bottom drawer of ideas because, you know, ideas are not the hard part.

00:10:38:04 – 00:10:59:12
Taryn W
It’s the execution that’s that hard part. But, you know, I think entrepreneurs ideas and business opportunities and everything and just want to go and like I could improve that is a better way of doing that. I could streamline that process. So, I do think there’s some common elements in entrepreneurs and and ones that are probably going to increase your likelihood of success, like that sort of tenacity and grit and determination.

00:10:59:14 – 00:11:17:22
Taryn W
So I don’t know that it’s a skill that can be taught. I think that there’s certainly probably some processes of thinking and how you think about innovation and disruption and, that can maybe be taught, but I don’t know if I think that sort of appetite for risk, an inherent sort of person ability profiles you either have or don’t.

00:11:17:23 – 00:11:24:20
Alex C
Yeah. Because I think it is that level where, it is so hard and it’s so hard for so long.

00:11:24:22 – 00:11:25:09
Taryn W
We have to.

00:11:25:09 – 00:11:44:15
Alex C
Really want it super badly. And then, and then the reality is going to kind of kind of hit you like, wow, I am not as good as of what I thought I was. Right. And then there’s other component of speed, right? Because yeah, it’s fine to fail, but like like it’s better if you do it quickly because if you do it quickly, at least that you learn quicker.

00:11:44:17 – 00:12:03:03
Alex C
When you learn quicker, then that’s where it kind of the innovation happens and all you need is a lot like a couple things to start to work and then it can go right. But it’s that first part of like, that’s not working. That’s not working, that’s not working. And then it starts working. Right. And so is that something that you’ve seen across all of your businesses obviously.

00:12:03:03 – 00:12:09:15
Alex C
Like it’s probably gotten a bit easier like the more successes. But is that still something that you have.

00:12:09:17 – 00:12:34:18
Taryn W
Yeah, I think the only thing that gets is yeah, I always I always think every time I start a business I might something maybe you. It’s easier only in the sense that I mean you have better connections. You know that the basic things that you need to do, I think the only thing that gets easier is you identify quicker what’s going to work and what’s not, or what when to pivot or, you know, when to walk away from something.

00:12:34:18 – 00:12:54:24
Taryn W
I think in my first business, you try a lot of things, and it takes a lot longer to recognize which of those things and moving the needle. And I think the more businesses I’ve had, the more it’s sort of easier to identify. Yeah. We’ve got a sign of product market fit here. We need to go date on this particular thing.

00:12:54:24 – 00:13:24:02
Taryn W
So I think that gets easier. And I think now I’m probably better surrounding myself with good people and, and knowing who to have and what kind of roles. I think, you know, you sort of experiment with a couple of different org charts or strategies. And I think I also sort of know now where my strengths and weaknesses are and going really date on particular sort of verticals and skills as opposed to wanting to be a generalist.

00:13:24:02 – 00:13:28:15
Taryn W
I’m not a generalist. I’m not a CEO like that. That’s not my skill set. It’s not what I enjoy.

00:13:28:15 – 00:13:30:07
Alex C
What is your skill set?

00:13:30:09 – 00:13:30:24
Taryn W
I think I could have.

00:13:30:24 – 00:13:32:01
Alex C
Really had to define.

00:13:32:01 – 00:14:04:18
Taryn W
This right. Not denying expertise. So, look, I think, obviously anything to do with talent, social media content creation, digital innovation technology, I would say marketplaces and SaaS businesses are kind of my sweet spot. So, yeah, that’s probably where I see my skill set and where I most enjoy playing. And I think there’s also probably an age you get to an a level of experience where you just go, look, I could be really, really great at these other parts of the business, but doesn’t set my soul on fire and is of the best use of my time.

00:14:04:18 – 00:14:05:24
Taryn W
Maybe not.

00:14:06:01 – 00:14:12:18
Alex C
And so, so for wink models. Yes. So that was an agency or was that a software company?

00:14:12:20 – 00:14:12:24
Taryn W
Right.

00:14:13:02 – 00:14:33:07
Alex C
But yeah, that was the actual agency. It was. I had to say, oh yeah. That’s why I had to confirm that. Yeah. Right. Because then you change the business model to start a software company. Right. So what was that like, shifting from a service kind of model to a software model? Because I’m across the details, but I just want to know just kind of how you found that transition.

00:14:33:09 – 00:14:59:03
Taryn W
Absolutely. So, at Winc, we were managing about 650 models, which, as you can imagine, was like unsustainable. You know, traditional this is not 69, 15, 16 years ago. So it was like spreadsheets, word document, pen and paper, you know, very, very manual. I don’t think we had zero back in was probably in my day. So, it was a really painful process.

00:14:59:03 – 00:15:12:21
Taryn W
And, and it was just as apps were kind of cool and I was like, I’m going to build an app for this business, and I’m going to, you know, check our model’s availability using a, you know, an app. And they can just say, yes, I’m available for that casting, and then it will schedule them into a shift and it can manage payroll.

00:15:12:21 – 00:15:32:04
Taryn W
And, you know, it’s a small little business idea. So I went and scoped it with an agency and was like, this is what I want to build. And I built this sort of end to end tech product. It was my first foray into tech, obviously. And built this bigger than Ben-Hur internal system link central with the business.

00:15:32:04 – 00:15:55:00
Taryn W
So uses it today and it completely transformed business. And I was like, wow, this is really cool. I mean, it was so painful. You can imagine, like, I knew absolutely nothing about building an MVP. I had no idea about what the difference between a front end and back in developer laws, but I persisted through it. I always say it was like a really expensive, painful MBA came out the other side and I was like, right?

00:15:55:04 – 00:16:24:09
Taryn W
I love building things in technology. I love solving business problems using tech. Wow. This completely like it just reduced the command dependency in the business. It was so many pain points it transformed. I got to the end of that build and I was like, what I should have done was built this as a, agnostic platform that any modeling agency or acting agency or talent agency could use, and the clients could just use directly and bypass an agency.

00:16:24:11 – 00:16:49:23
Taryn W
And it was sort of around the time that freelancer was starting and airtasker and I was like, I could have built a marketplace. And so I went to see some of our clients, and I was like, look, you don’t worry about offending me. But if you had the option of not using a talent agency and you could just go direct through a platform like an Antosca or a freelancer and find a model or makeup artist, is that something you would do or would you be too concerned?

00:16:49:23 – 00:17:03:09
Taryn W
And so I had a lot of sort of conversations with clients about it, and they were like, yeah, look, it’s definitely something we would try and love the idea and could see they going with it. So and that was where the idea for the right Fit came from, which was my second business, which was to set a marketplace for creative talent.

00:17:03:09 – 00:17:21:10
Taryn W
So I sort of had all of the key learnings from building this internal tool that week. And I went away and had this time I needed kind of what to do. So I was like, okay, MVP, I need a team. I needed mapped out all the sort of wireframes. What are the key features? What’s a bare minimum we can get away with to launch this thing?

00:17:21:12 – 00:17:35:11
Taryn W
Built a really quick and dirty MVP and got a proof of concept. Could say that there was interest from both sides in the marketplace and then went, right, we’re going to build this app and and we raised capital probably six months after that.

00:17:35:13 – 00:17:52:13
Alex C
So you started by actually talking to the customers first? Well, actually, you started by actually, you built something to solve an issue internally and then you thought, all right, this is potentially software. And then you went out and you spoke to the customers first, and then you built it after confirming that there was going to be customers for it.

00:17:52:15 – 00:18:09:18
Taryn W
Yes. And it was the best thing I did, because, you know, what I could have done was build the product and gone Will, I think there’s a need and then turn around and find out. Actually, no customers just like really love their agency relationships and they’re obviously using a marketplace, the case of the selling point so that it’s faster and it’s cheaper.

00:18:09:20 – 00:18:31:01
Taryn W
But what you lose in that transaction is, you know, the expertise of having someone help you and guide you through the process. You know, the onus is on you to do the work, the contacting back and forth of models. And so I really needed to prove that out and make sure that it was genuinely something that they were willing to do, and that there was enough cost sensitivity in the market, for that to be the case.

00:18:31:01 – 00:18:52:03
Taryn W
So, having that understanding and then what I found through that process is that so many of those people were then really deeply bought into the success of the platform, and they were so involved and like, hey, I’ve got this idea. What if you added this or I’d love this feature, or could you do this? And so they became sort of like out both our beta testers and kind of our brand advocates and champions at the time as well.

00:18:52:05 – 00:19:06:16
Alex C
So how hard was it, I guess, at that point? In terms of the raising of capital, because that would have been the first time, because the first one was kind of self-funded, organic drive. It’s all about the grind. The second one, I’m getting capital for spade.

00:19:06:18 – 00:19:07:10
Taryn W
Yeah.

00:19:07:12 – 00:19:23:11
Alex C
The first part is actually how hard was it? In terms of the rise. And the second part is the how was the experience then of having someone else’s money and the space, the timeline, expectations, if you could talk about that? Because that’s a shift and a half, right? Compared to.

00:19:23:11 – 00:19:24:16
Taryn W
Absolutely a model.

00:19:24:16 – 00:19:31:01
Alex C
I, have staff and they’re going to make it happen. I have to make payroll, right? You know what I mean? Like, it’s it’s a bit different.

00:19:31:01 – 00:19:48:00
Taryn W
Completely different journey. And I think I was so naive again in how different the two things were. So I was like, I’m from a successful business with all I know how to do this. I can manage a panel, I can run a great team, I can build company culture, blah, blah. Right? Running a tech business and a fast growth tech business is so different.

00:19:48:00 – 00:20:07:18
Taryn W
So, I bootstrapped probably the first like $500,000 of the business, and I’d actually gone to see a few people, purely to get some advice and say, look, the business is seems to be really like, I think I’ve got some product market fit here. We’re seeing really good growth, but I still am working full time in both businesses are, you know, running.

00:20:07:18 – 00:20:25:11
Taryn W
I’m CEO of the modeling agency trying to run this thing. At what point would you recommend stepping full time into a pursuit like this, or is it better to bring in someone else to run that business? What would it look like? Do I close link models? Do I sell it? I was under the impression it could just not run without me.

00:20:25:11 – 00:20:51:16
Taryn W
You know, I, I had such, you know, this idea that was came independency and it was such a shock when that were totally fine. And so I went to see a few mentors and I was like, hey, like, you know, how would you recommend I think about this and approach this? And one of those people was a venture capitalist and said, like, I think this is a really good idea, and it’s got all of the sort of markings and things that we would look for, you know, we would be happy to invest if that’s a path that you would be interested in going down.

00:20:51:18 – 00:21:04:16
Taryn W
And I was like, oh God, that was sort of not something I was expecting. And I hadn’t really thought about it yet. And I was like, okay, well, really, if I’m going to do this, I want to do it well, I want to do it with the best partners. And yes, I am going to have to expedite the growth.

00:21:04:16 – 00:21:21:16
Taryn W
We could have continued to bootstrap it, but it just would have really high and strong business. And I knew that, you know, especially with marketplaces, it’s like a winner takes most approach. Like we had to go out there and we had to acquire customers and kind of really, really quickly. So, I came back to the team and I was like, yeah, I think we should do this.

00:21:21:16 – 00:21:42:13
Taryn W
I think we should go down this path and raise capital. So then it was an absolute baptism by fire of learning. Like, what does that mean? What are the right terms? You know, who do we want to invest with? What kind of partners do I want? Like how much equity are we willing to give up? And so that was a completely, all consuming, really, really intense period.

00:21:42:13 – 00:22:02:07
Taryn W
And, you know, the, grappling with the idea that all of a sudden, you know, I was going to go from being completely autonomous business owner who could do what they wanted, grow the business how I wanted, and completely organically to having a very formal board, you know, serious investors who had, you know, put a decent amount of money into this business and obviously had expectations.

00:22:02:08 – 00:22:21:14
Taryn W
And, so it was a really different. But the upsides are that obviously you’ve got cash available to make fantastic hires, you know, tax things that you wouldn’t, you know, be able to test without that kind of capital available. And people who are like, deeply invested in your success and really want to help, and who have obviously just been there, done that.

00:22:21:14 – 00:22:48:03
Taryn W
They’ve got the war scars. They know this. They can predict what’s going to happen far faster than you can. So there’s a lot of benefit. Obviously there’s downsides as well. You know, you don’t get that full autonomy to make the decisions that you want to make. You are completely accountable to a board. And so that means sometimes I look back on that journey, I think there was times when we were running before we could walk, you know, we were so focused on hitting these monthly targets.

00:22:48:03 – 00:23:03:10
Taryn W
And, you know, we’ve got it. We presented this model, we’ve got to get here. And so we were probably making short term decisions at the expense of the long term. You know, best interests of the company. So there was just a lot of learning, I think, along the way. You know what, Sarah.

00:23:03:12 – 00:23:30:06
Alex C
How did you find. Because if you were to bootstrap something, that’s all your money up to you. If you want it to be longer, it can be longer. If you make a decision that’s different. Now you have some funding, and now you have to get some, some growth, you know, was it challenging in the beginning to start with lots of money and spend it smartly compared to the grind?

00:23:30:12 – 00:23:49:18
Alex C
You know what I mean? Where it’s like you kind of used to the grind, but now you’ve got a big chunk of money and some goals, and you have to win immediately. And yeah, yeah, maybe you can make a mistake, but a much smaller, kind of leeway of success. Yeah. So how did you find I guess the shift into this has to go in the next.

00:23:49:23 – 00:23:53:02
Alex C
I say, 6 to 9 months or something like that.

00:23:53:02 – 00:24:17:06
Taryn W
Yeah. It was so challenging for me. I had come from, you know, obviously running a business that had always been cashflow positive. I’d been super conservative in how I’d run that business. You know, I watched every single dollar and cent and I had to to manage cash flow and and grow it sustainably to coming into a venture funded business that had high growth targets and where you don’t have, proven, repeatable.

00:24:17:06 – 00:24:35:18
Taryn W
You know, it’s so early. So it’s not like, you know, put another $10,000 into this marketing channel and, you know, you’re going to get $20,000 back. It’s like you’re experimenting across so many different things and you’re trying to guess the impact of, okay, so I bring in a full time product manager. What sort of impact is that going to have on the velocity of our roadmap?

00:24:35:18 – 00:24:53:20
Taryn W
And is that going to increase the conversion rate. And and so it’s a lot of guesswork. You know, you’ve got so many different initiatives from both like a product perspective, a marketing perspective, a sales perspective going on at the same time. And you know, one of the things that I learned, I think, especially in the marketplace business, is there’s there’s no silver bullet.

00:24:53:22 – 00:25:13:17
Taryn W
It’s not like one of those things is going to work. Like if I if I just do really high performance Facebook ads that, you know, that’s going to drive our business. It’s kind of a lot of little tiny paper cuts across the board, you know, improving the on site experience by 2%. You know, we are reducing the friction in the signup flow by 5%.

00:25:13:17 – 00:25:31:22
Taryn W
Like, you know, cumulatively, the impact of all of those things is what, you know, makes the business card. But it’s yeah, it’s a lot of tough experimentation. And there was markets where we were burning like the $100,000, and I’d be like, sick with anxiety because you’re like, oh my God. Like, you know, we’ve got so much money going out the door.

00:25:31:24 – 00:25:47:19
Taryn W
We’ve got a finite period of time to prove this business out. I’m solely accountable, which is not true. And one of the things I had to learn was that, you know, your team by the end of this journey, they believe in you, they believe in the business. And it isn’t. It’s not solely on you to deliver this, but I think, you know, there’s that.

00:25:47:23 – 00:25:51:06
Alex C
But I kind of is sorry, but it comes.

00:25:51:08 – 00:26:07:10
Taryn W
Conflict as well as a, as an entrepreneur. I think you’re like, oh my God, this is all on me. I have to do it all. And so, you know, the anxiety of going, oh my God, I’ve got to get this right. And like, I took it very, very seriously. I didn’t want to let people down. I had, you know, taken their money in good faith.

00:26:07:12 – 00:26:16:21
Taryn W
I was willing to kill myself to deliver a result for that business. And yeah, it was it was some of the most challenging times in my life, for sure.

00:26:16:23 – 00:26:34:12
Alex C
And, I mean, you had to quickly learn how to scale up a software company, which is very, very different to a service based business. Right? Completely different. Other metrics are different. All the things are different. How you approach a different acquisition is different. Everything is different. So how important was the board and the VC in terms of that journey?

00:26:34:14 – 00:27:00:22
Taryn W
Really important? Absolutely. I was so lucky that I had an amazing mentor who then became the chairman of my board, who had been, an American entrepreneur, had had 4 or 5 different, tech companies. He’d had two successful exits under his belt and was just so formative in helping me understand, the difference and how to grow a really high performance software and engineering team.

00:27:00:24 – 00:27:17:09
Taryn W
What that should look like in terms of development, cadence and all of those things and just understanding, working through some of those, you know, a basic back to LTV ratio, you know, some of the things that in a traditional sort of agency business, we just weren’t concerned about, you know, it was it was a very, very different business.

00:27:17:09 – 00:27:51:16
Taryn W
So having the right board and a board that and the board changed over time that, you know, that business was seven, seven and a half years old when I sold it. So, you know, the board changed over time as well, you know, as you’d have board members leave, new people join, new investors come on board that we get a board say so getting that dynamic right and the sort of skills matrix and making it an effective board is, is really challenging and challenging, on top of the fact that you’re you’re giving everything that you have to the day to day operations of the business, and then you’ve got to take a step back

00:27:51:16 – 00:28:02:20
Taryn W
and go, okay, now I need to put, you know, that 30,000ft view on and engage with my board. It’s a completely different mindset to being in the minutia day to day.

00:28:02:22 – 00:28:06:14
Alex C
So you had that and you still had winked models two at the same time.

00:28:06:16 – 00:28:07:20
Taryn W
I did I then you.

00:28:07:20 – 00:28:13:24
Alex C
Started some other agency called the influencers as well. Is that right? So you just threw away else that you just throw another one in there.

00:28:14:01 – 00:28:40:14
Taryn W
Yeah. And then I started the influencers agency. And yeah, I could see a gap in the market for there was influencer agencies who representing influencers, but there was no one that was sort of platform agnostic, or agency agnostic. So we would purely work for brands or brands like HelloFresh or Lululemon would engage us and then go, okay, we’ve got $100,000 to do an influencer marketing campaign.

00:28:40:14 – 00:29:00:05
Taryn W
What should we do and how should we do it with? And we would then work with all of the different platforms, all of the different agencies put together the best way for them, and help them execute that. So yes, I did that as well. And then I sold both the right fit and the influencers agency, nearly 18 months ago now.

00:29:00:07 – 00:29:21:09
Alex C
Yeah. And let’s talk about that because what is the journey in terms of exiting a company? Because obviously it takes longer than what you think, first of all. But then also it’s still need to operate. So you can’t just be like, I’m selling a car. Yeah. Come by. Right. So can you talk through just what that was like in terms of the process, the support around you and how long it took some of the challenges?

00:29:21:11 – 00:29:42:10
Taryn W
Yeah, I mean, go. And what you said about it takes longer than you thought. Like I look back on our initial IAM from our very first race and I think, oh, you know, we had like within three years will be in, you know, 15 different countries internationally when you think all the naivete of it all, so it takes so much longer to get the business to the proof points that you want and the proof points, that makes sense.

00:29:42:12 – 00:30:08:15
Taryn W
For an acquisition and, probably at about the four year mark, we were receiving quite a few inbound acquisition opportunities. And so we’ve softly explored it, and decided night time wasn’t right. And then at around the six year mark, we had a very, aggressive inbound acquisition opportunity. And that’s what really kickstart the opportunity for us to go and sort of really formally test the market and go, right.

00:30:08:16 – 00:30:32:24
Taryn W
Okay. What could an acquisition look like? Who’s the right partner? What would the right deal look like? And, and as you say, like what was the right deal for me? And it’s, it’s one of the, I think one of the most challenging processes I’ve ever been through, because there’s what’s right for you as the founder. There’s what’s right for, your shareholder base, and then there’s what’s right for your team.

00:30:33:01 – 00:31:08:10
Taryn W
And those things are not always going to align in an acquisition. You know, there was, one bidder in the process who was definitely not going to be the right cultural fit for my team. That may have been the best outcome for myself and our investor base. So it’s really about analyzing some of the deals where Pat cash, hot stock, some of the deals where, you know, over a three year and out, you know, so there’s all of these different moving pieces that you have to evaluate and go, where am I?

00:31:08:10 – 00:31:24:20
Taryn W
What’s the opportunity cost of that? You’re may staying in the business versus going on and doing another venture. I had the idea for gifted, which I’d started working on in the background already, so I knew that I wanted to go and see that. So what was the opportunity cost of not being able to go in to do that for three years?

00:31:24:20 – 00:31:47:07
Taryn W
If I had to stay full time in the day, versus what’s the financial upside that I could get if I stay longer and hit certain KPIs? So it was really, really challenging. And the only person I had a fantastic mentor, the chairman of my board, from our venture capital partner, who was really great with me and sat down and went through it so many times.

00:31:47:07 – 00:32:00:20
Taryn W
I’m like, the only person that can make this decision is you. It’s not something that you can outsource to someone. It’s not something that the board can decide for you. Because really, at the end of the day, it’s a personal decision of, what deal you’re willing to take and what deal is going to be right for you.

00:32:00:20 – 00:32:05:08
Taryn W
I was still a majority shareholder, so, yeah, it was really tough.

00:32:05:10 – 00:32:26:02
Alex C
Yeah, I was about to ask a few of the majority shareholder because that kind of helps a lot because otherwise it’s not really up to you anymore. And and so just on that point there, how hard was it in terms of the maintaining of the majority shareholding? But like, was that something that was always kind of being but not kind of challenged, but like, like was that something that you had to fight for almost?

00:32:26:02 – 00:32:42:07
Alex C
Because obviously, you know, like everyone, it’s much more, I guess, like equity. And obviously I think everyone’s saying the social network, maybe you doesn’t want to be like the Dustin, guy who got hustled out. So like, yeah, how hard was that part of it? Like with in terms of like, is that something that like kind of yeah.

00:32:42:08 – 00:32:44:10
Alex C
Like was a challenge for you?

00:32:44:12 – 00:33:09:22
Taryn W
I’d been pretty clear when I started the business. I had the goal of getting it to cash flow positive. And thankfully, I did that sort of before Covid and the market self-help hack. Because I was very clear that there was sort of a period in innovation and startups where it was it was really growth for growth sake and, you know, people were raising lots of money at really crazy valuations with no path to profitability.

00:33:09:24 – 00:33:22:06
Taryn W
And, and I would love to say that I was some sort of genius and sort of writing on the wall, but I wasn’t, and it just gave me a lot of anxiety. And I was like, this does not feel the right way to grow a sustainable company. Like, I feel like I need at some point, a path to profitability.

00:33:22:06 – 00:33:43:12
Taryn W
And, so underlying business metrics that make sense. And so I killed myself to get the business to cash flow positive. And so that really allowed me to be master of my own destiny. We raised two rounds of capital. So obviously there’s a dilutive effect in that, but I’ve managed to stay majority shareholder because after that we didn’t need to raise any more capital.

00:33:43:14 – 00:34:02:16
Alex C
That’s a good answer, that you made a business that’s actually a business, not just an idea to sell. No, it’s actually funny, right? Because I’ve seen this conversation over the years and, like, you know, everyone was going after the multiples and then have no revenue streams, right? And then, you know, they’d hope just to sell and then like, as soon as the market just stopped, like a few years ago, everything stopped.

00:34:02:16 – 00:34:23:05
Alex C
Right? So the fact that you’re a true entrepreneur who wanted a business that actually is a business, probably like was a big, component of it. So I love that. And so that’s a fantastic answer. But so you exited and you had the idea for gifted, but I’m assuming that there was a period of time after the exit that you took some time off.

00:34:23:06 – 00:34:38:02
Alex C
Right? How much time did you take off and what was your identity life after that? Because I know the entrepreneur, our identities are often linked to our companies in a big way. So yeah, how is that shift, that transition, if you could talk that through.

00:34:38:03 – 00:35:01:05
Taryn W
And so, the sale process took about nine months, and was incredibly intense. And there was moments where I was like really ready to just down to some local. I like it was so emotionally demanding. And you’re, you know, you might have there was some days where I’d have 6 or 7 management presentations, like presentations to buyers on top of still being CEO of a company.

00:35:01:05 – 00:35:19:02
Taryn W
And you got to run the business, right. So you’re effectively doing two full time jobs for at least a 3 or 4 month period. And so I got to the end of that sale process, and I was totally burnt out. And I was like, right, I’m going to take 12 months off. I had a co-founder in gifted and I was like, right, you’re going to run this business.

00:35:19:02 – 00:35:36:14
Taryn W
I’d given a big chunk of equity. And I was like, I gotta go. I need 12 months of like not being accountable, not checking my email every day. And just to, you know, take a step back and rediscover myself. And so I wish I could say I don’t not that plan. I did not.

00:35:36:16 – 00:35:37:24
Alex C
I was about to say, how.

00:35:37:24 – 00:35:39:10
Taryn W
Is that possible? Yeah.

00:35:39:11 – 00:35:41:22
Alex C
Without starting anything.

00:35:41:24 – 00:36:06:24
Taryn W
So I had a couple of board roles as well. So like I had reasons that I had to still be around and obviously I still own link models. So I had reasons that I still had to sort of be around. But I was, you know, was still working, on gifted and it was pre launch and as the business is about to be ready for launch, my business partner was like, I can’t do this.

00:36:07:01 – 00:36:36:19
Taryn W
It’s too stressful. I need out. And I was like, oh God, no, I really needed this call. And so, you know, it was a really tough decision because the business, really had the signs of being something that I thought could be, you know, a fantastic opportunity and that I was very excited about. And, and so I thought, do I pocket and come back to it in 12 months and do I just put a bullet in its head and not do it at all?

00:36:36:24 – 00:36:44:08
Taryn W
And of course, like the entrepreneur in me was like, no, no, no, I’ll just I’ll come back. I’ll just, you know, I was living easy.

00:36:44:09 – 00:36:46:19
Alex C
It’ll be easy.

00:36:46:21 – 00:37:09:24
Taryn W
It’ll be easy. I’ll do three months, I’ll put in a year. And you know, I’d be fine anyway. So that was July last year. And here we are. I’ve been, you know, say I’m running a business, since then. And, you know, pleasingly, the business is going incredibly well. And, you know, it does have all of the things that I had hoped had happen, would happen.

00:37:09:24 – 00:37:29:13
Taryn W
So but it hasn’t extracted me from the day to day operations, and hasn’t given me that sabbatical. So, look, it’s, I think it’s the, the guilty trait of an entrepreneur and that you want to get in and get your hands dirty, and, I yeah, it’s something I haven’t quite learned how to how to get over just yet.

00:37:29:15 – 00:37:49:17
Alex C
And I wonder if that’s something which you can ever get over. Like I always get asked, like I, when are you going to retire? Da da da da da. And I’m like, I don’t think I can ever retire because I like what I do. It’s fun. Like, I, I think it’s hard for me to do other things, actually, then start a business or to run things or create content or have.

00:37:49:22 – 00:38:07:24
Alex C
I have so many ideas and I’m sure this is exactly the same for you, where the issue is not all right. Because what I’m going to do is like, all right, cuz what am I not going to do? So I can just focus on the things that I’m going to do. And I’ve learned the hard way. I’m not quite sure about you, although, from your history, but the question is, it’s important to focus right on a because we want to start 100 things.

00:38:07:24 – 00:38:32:14
Alex C
But then there’s also the follow through. Right. So let me just talk through some kind of entrepreneurial stuff and then, How important is the domain expertise in starting a business? Because, in terms of your history, it’s all in the same kind of like it’s all in the same kind of area. It’s adapted in terms of the business model, but as kind of the times have changed.

00:38:32:16 – 00:38:37:00
Alex C
But how important is actually having the domain expertise.

00:38:37:02 – 00:38:59:10
Taryn W
In your there’s some skills that are transferable across industries. So I sit on the board of a few other companies and none are in this space. And there’s, you know, reflecting on the role that I play there, I think there’s a lot of skills that are transferable. Especially one is in a marketplace business. So this, you know, really easily transferable skills.

00:38:59:10 – 00:39:22:16
Taryn W
So I think there’s some skills that are transferable. I think the benefit of having deep domain expertise in industry is that you really understand the problems of the user. And I think that really gave us an advantage in the right fit. And definitely in gifted as well. I think if you try to approach an industry cold, it can be very difficult.

00:39:22:20 – 00:39:51:21
Taryn W
That said, I know lots of people who have identified a great business model in snatch and gone. I’m going to bring that business to Australia and set up a copycat here, not knowing anything about that particular industry and had great success. So I think it depends on how adaptable the skill sets are that you have. But I do always think if it’s not the founder having a deep domain expertise, having key team members that really understand that, just prevent you, I think, from making some really big mistakes that you might not know about.

00:39:51:23 – 00:40:14:22
Alex C
So what would you say is, the important characteristics of a founder that’s going to succeed, right? Because, you know, like, if I look at your history right, the doggedness, the grind, the hustle, but also the ability, right? Because, I mean, I said this so many times, like, I think that every wake, every day, it doesn’t matter how much you want it, it’s how you good enough for it.

00:40:14:22 – 00:40:27:15
Alex C
Right? Because everyone wants everything. But are you good enough? And are you learning fast enough? Right. And so, you know, so what would you say are the most important things like, like like if you were looking at a company just to invest in and you were looking at the founders, right. And it’s what do you look for? Let’s put it that way.

00:40:27:17 – 00:40:48:23
Taryn W
Yeah. I mean, the thing that I evaluate when I’m investing now, the thing that I evaluate people on, is it is really a few of those things. So adaptability like, do I think that they will, be able to recognize and and adapt to changing industry market trends, knowing when to pivot the business? Are they good people?

00:40:49:00 – 00:41:13:05
Taryn W
And obviously that can be hard to tell from, you know, 3 or 4 national meetings. But, do I think that they have, the humbleness, the lack of ego, you know, I think entrepreneurs are delicate balance, right? Like you need to have enough self security and eager to go, I can do this. And I’m going to go and knock down those doors, and I’m not going to be shy in asking CEO of this company for meeting or whatever it might be.

00:41:13:07 – 00:41:44:24
Taryn W
But also humble enough to know that you don’t know everything, and that you are going to have to be guided along the way. Definitely that tenacity and determination. I think one of the things I’ve recognized in a lot of the portfolio boards that I model, portfolios that I’ve invested in, there’s a lot of people who have come from a professional sporting background or have a serious commitment to health and wellness, and I think that, you know, when I look at it, I think it’s just that they, they are consistent in delivering personal results for themselves.

00:41:44:24 – 00:41:58:21
Taryn W
You know, they are getting up at 5 a.m., they’re going to the gym, you know, and they’re willing to make sacrifices to. And so I think that that is like a personality and characteristic trait. So I think there’s some common threads there.

00:41:58:23 – 00:42:16:16
Alex C
I like that one by the way. Like if I can just jump in on that, the sports analogy, other sports experience is a good one because, you know, I think, I think there’s I think something happened over the years where, people forgot that it’s competition. Right. And people forgot that it’s actually the strongest and the fastest who wins.

00:42:16:16 – 00:42:30:22
Alex C
Right. And doesn’t matter how much we care about how good we are, and it’s a family and all that, it’s actually a competition out there. And so sports psychology, they have got to win. It’s about the discipline. It’s every day practicing this. Yeah I love that.

00:42:30:24 – 00:43:09:04
Taryn W
Absolutely. And you’re right is no participation medals in business. Like you. Either you are the winner and this works or it doesn’t like. So I think yeah I think getting finding people and businesses where, you know, the founding team understands that. And then looking at the dynamic between team members as well, especially if it’s a founding duo or, you know, 3 or 4 people just understanding that dynamic, how they plan to work together, what the skill set is, what the cap table looks like as well, because, you know, conscious of being involved in businesses where the founders are already heavily diluted, because I know they’re going to have to go on

00:43:09:06 – 00:43:23:10
Taryn W
three, four, five rounds of capital. And exactly as you’re saying, you know, you don’t want a founding team who have got 5% of the business because it’s going to be really, really, really hot. And they’re going to go, you know what? This isn’t worth it. So, you know, you need a foundation that is still heavily invested.

00:43:23:12 – 00:43:47:21
Alex C
And so how important is the revenue stream of these investments that you look at. Right. Because that’s kind of what saved you. Right. And that’s kind of the psychology that you bring into every business. Is that something that that you look for as well, or are you open to these other kind of, you know, ways, kind of bases just like it’s all about the market cap and it’s not about kind of revenue streams.

00:43:47:21 – 00:43:55:24
Alex C
Like, is that something that you bring to every deal, or is that something that you’ve learned? Maybe there’s other ways. That’s not just about the profitability of something.

00:43:56:01 – 00:44:31:24
Taryn W
Yeah, I mainly look for businesses that I think I can make a meaningful impact on. So, whether that’s the phase of the life cycle that they’re in, or whether that’s the business model, or whether it’s the industry sector. So, I think that what I’m, you know, not playing an active day to day role in any of the businesses, I think that that’s when I reflect on my journey and the investors that I brought on, people who were strategic capital and could add more than just putting a check in the bank was so much more valuable to us.

00:44:31:24 – 00:44:36:17
Taryn W
And so I want to be that for the portfolio of businesses that I work with.

00:44:36:19 – 00:44:55:20
Alex C
Understand, understand. And I’ve got a few more entrepreneurial questions. But I think I will end on this. I want to ask you about hash gifted. Right. Because hash gift is a combination of, I don’t know how many years of all your experience into this thing that is now like a dating app, but for influencers, and it’s something that we use the web profits as well.

00:44:55:20 – 00:45:13:08
Alex C
So like I was already across the app and then, you know, we had the conversation, I was like, oh, wow, I already used the app. That’s how I’ll go do that, right? But, if you could just give a quick overview of the app because I think it’s fantastic. And then I think we’ll speak about just how content has shifted over the years and why this is kind of how it is at the moment.

00:45:13:08 – 00:45:17:09
Alex C
So if you could just. Yeah, quick overview for anyone who doesn’t know how gifted.

00:45:17:11 – 00:45:42:16
Taryn W
Of course, from a brand perspective, they can use the Shopify integration or they can just use the platform without it. And essentially they can select products or services that they want to gift to influencers and content creators. So it can be physical products, clothing, makeup, anything like that, or it can be services. So hotel stays, restaurant visits, their hairdressing services.

00:45:42:18 – 00:45:59:00
Taryn W
And from the infanticide, exactly as you said, it’s like a dating app. So they just swipe left and right through products and services that they would like to be gifted in exchange for doing something. So whether it’s content creation or sharing content on their socials or leaving reviews, and the whole idea came from tariff was a marketplace.

00:45:59:00 – 00:46:17:16
Taryn W
So we charged a commission on every single transaction through the marketplace. But there were so many brands who had really awesome products and services that they were willing to gift in exchange for content and working with influencers. But that didn’t work in the marketplace business, right? Like we had to charge a commission so we can’t charge 15% of pair of shoes.

00:46:17:18 – 00:46:40:10
Taryn W
And so I think there was an opportunity there. And then on the flip side, I’m a macro creator myself, and I would receive so many unsolicited gifts to the office. And I felt so guilty because I thought, all of these businesses have invested so much money in these beautiful send out. You know, maybe I’ve got a competing make up deal and I can’t post about this product or this isn’t really my size or style.

00:46:40:10 – 00:47:01:08
Taryn W
I don’t really want it. And so there’s got to be a better way. Why can’t we just build something that allows influencers to opt in to what they want to receive? And that means that brands, connecting with people who authentically, genuinely want to try those products, and sort of democratizing that, that content creation pace because getting really great UGC is super hard.

00:47:01:08 – 00:47:38:10
Taryn W
You know, it’s a ideal scenario that you would have these magical customers online who are making great video testimonials for you and sharing them and tagging you. And it just obviously doesn’t happen. So I wanted to make that something that was viable for businesses to be able to do and recognizing that, you know, the industry and landscape could really change from working with these big macro creators, where there was very obvious brand endorsement, through to consumers, you know, becoming much more savvy and much more aware as the life cycle of social media changed to going, okay, I want to see people who are like me.

00:47:38:12 – 00:47:56:23
Taryn W
I want to find people that I really trust online, and I’m heavily influenced by micro creators in particular niches. And so I wanted to be able to and that’s really hard for brand to find and identify. You know, if you’re looking for vegan mommy bloggers on the northern beaches, like, how are you going to find out? It’s really hot.

00:47:56:23 – 00:48:03:09
Taryn W
So I wanted to be able to help brands be able to unlock that at scale. And so that was the idea for hashtags you came from.

00:48:03:15 – 00:48:16:23
Alex C
And you mentioned that it applies across all kinds of businesses. It’s not just e-commerce, which is like it kind of seems to tend to go into e-commerce because I send the product. But then you said hotel stays or services. So how does that work?

00:48:17:00 – 00:48:33:08
Taryn W
Yeah. So you can list anything on the platform. So we’ve got loads of restaurants, loads like AccorHotels Solid Health Group. Cute hotels, loads of like hair salons, beauty salons, nail salons and marketplace.

00:48:33:08 – 00:48:35:07
Alex C
Right. So it’s just a marketplace of upload and have.

00:48:35:07 – 00:48:50:08
Taryn W
An exercise that, yeah, we’re going to go to an SEO provider who is offering our services to influencers who have their own small business or their own blog and one SEO services. They come really, they like just about anything at the moment.

00:48:50:10 – 00:49:07:20
Alex C
And just, I don’t know, like if it’s something just to turn the podcast up, but, in terms of, in terms of the pricing, like, is it like a subscription? Is it a expensive? Because I know a lot of times everything is expensive, right. So like, is it expensive? Is it affordable? Is it comparative?

00:49:07:20 – 00:49:29:01
Taryn W
Yeah. Yeah I think yeah, absolutely. So it’s a monthly subscription to the brand side. It’s completely free for influencers to join and receive gifts and apply and everything like that. We vet every single influencer, we turned out about 80%. So they have to be fully vetted influencers. On the brand side, it’s a subscription fee. As starter plan starts at $99 a month.

00:49:29:03 – 00:49:29:20
Taryn W

00:49:29:22 – 00:49:42:09
Alex C
That’s cheap. Everyone. Everyone who wants content, that’s the cheapest thing ever. Sign up. Now, I, I know how much content costs out there. Thousands and thousands of dollars for just a few videos. So 100 bucks a month. Yeah. Yeah I know, yeah.

00:49:42:14 – 00:50:00:15
Taryn W
And then and most expensive plan is 349 a month. So it is still wildly affordable. And yeah, the most expensive plan also includes all of your content licensing. So if you want to use that content, for paid media advertising, anything like that, it’s all included. So we just tried to make and you can cancel any time.

00:50:00:15 – 00:50:18:02
Taryn W
It’s month by month subscription services like Netflix. If you’re not using it, just cancel it. So we tried to make it really affordable because as you said, there’s so many tools out there that have got, you know, the three, 4 or $5000 a month that really time consuming and cumbersome just to even learn how to use them. In the influencer space.

00:50:18:02 – 00:50:33:01
Taryn W
And you’re like, oh, God, now I’ve got these fancy AI identification tools. And like most businesses don’t need it. Most businesses kind of afford to be investing that much instead of social content, influencer marketing, digital content. So I just I’ll just make it easy, fast, efficient.

00:50:33:03 – 00:50:55:23
Alex C
So what’s interesting is that you seem to be hitting all of the trends. So you launched the right fit back when influencers are thing and then you exited and then you’ve launched this one. Now where kind of influences are still good, but you know, so so we run like e-commerce agency. And you know, we do a lot of content for matter and TikTok.

00:50:55:23 – 00:51:19:24
Alex C
Right. And it’s the micro influencers who you’ve never heard of before. It’s to some person at home, a random person who just makes a good video. Right. And then it’s about always experimenting with like a lot of different assets, a lot of different angles, different hooks and stuff like that. But it’s all about this, the nano influencer or the or the micro influencer, where there might not even be an influencer, but they make content for you, right?

00:51:19:24 – 00:51:30:21
Alex C
And so how do you keep hitting these trends? Well, you know, because it’s like you just went, oh, here you go. And it was like, why are you so lucky? Oh my God, you just managed to do it.

00:51:30:23 – 00:51:31:15
Taryn W
Like.

00:51:31:17 – 00:51:33:21
Alex C
That. You it’s not like.

00:51:33:23 – 00:51:53:11
Taryn W
I can say there was some like amazing, you know, analysis process I go through to determine like, you know, where industry sectors are or gaps in the market. It’s really like I sort of saw this opportunity and I thought, oh, I could build something like really cool. And again, in my head I was like, it’s going to be really small, like one page application, but it’s turned into, again, it’s bigger than Ben-Hur thing.

00:51:53:11 – 00:52:15:07
Taryn W
But, yeah, I think it was just a process of constantly hearing from both sides the pain points, you know, from influencers that I knew who were sick of receiving unsolicited gifts or who were reaching out to me saying, hey, do you know the contact person at, you know, this clothing brand or at this? You know, because I want to get in touch with them about getting some product for them.

00:52:15:07 – 00:52:26:24
Taryn W
I, my trip to Bali or whatever. And so I was like, okay, there’s a pain point on that side, pain point on the brand side. I’ll just build something quick to to solve that, not expecting it to send to a whole nother business.

00:52:26:24 – 00:52:51:15
Alex C
So okay, so basically the I think that’s a really good point, right? I think, the benefit of being such a dogged entrepreneur who’s just basically in the business, who’s there and who wants to listen is that you’re listening when you listen. And if you’re doing all the work all the time, you know, there’s a certain kind of a pace that happens and it’s like ideas happen, you know, just when like that, like there’s stuff happening, right?

00:52:51:15 – 00:53:17:00
Alex C
So the more things that are happening and if you’re listening and if you’re always open and humble, right, you can evolve. Right. And I think I would, which you said before, I think adapt. Obel I think that I think that you’ve got a combination of adaptability and and speed of execution and ability, obviously. Right. And I think that has led to, you know, this thing where you seem to just have success after success, after success at a high level.

00:53:17:00 – 00:53:20:11
Alex C
I mean, I’m sure that one can say the grind.

00:53:20:13 – 00:53:21:06
Taryn W
Exactly.

00:53:21:06 – 00:53:35:06
Alex C
The grind is hidden from everyone. It’s not on Instagram, it’s not on TikTok. It’s just hidden from everyone. But, you know, but at the I’d say at the 30,000ft view, it looks like a very planned, successful career, right. In kind of entrepreneurship.

00:53:35:06 – 00:53:54:17
Taryn W
Very neat to that, you know, so there’s obviously, you know, the twists and turns along the way, but, yeah. And I think one of the, the whole listening piece, I think was so important for me. And, you know, my I used to do customer service on the weekend, in the outfit, which was insane, but I loved it because it meant I got to hear the pain points of customers.

00:53:54:17 – 00:54:18:16
Taryn W
And I for the first 2 or 3 years, I did the first hour and last hour customer service every single weekday as well, because I just wanted to know and be across like obviously one. What were the pain points in our business? So people experiencing bugs or having challenges or not liking things, but also what sort of things were they asking and what sort of signals was I getting from the market that there might be other opportunities, whether it was within that business or looking for another business.

00:54:18:16 – 00:54:41:23
Taryn W
And so I think listening and being aware and also, you know, spending so much time in the industry asking for help, meeting, I was very conscious. I would always keep Friday morning at 8 a.m.. I would have an industry meeting. I would reach out to someone on LinkedIn and we have a coffee, someone I admired, someone from an adjacent sector or whatever to really try and keep abreast of what else was going on in the industry.

00:54:42:00 – 00:54:51:22
Taryn W
So yeah, I think listening and, and trying to be aware and stepping out of your sort of the maybe the bubble that you put yourself in to execute your own business. So important.

00:54:51:24 – 00:55:14:09
Alex C
Yeah. It, this is something I learned a few years into my first kind of businesses. Was that because I used to really, like, hate talking to customers? Because I was a bit kind of like, because I had. What’s it called? What’s that? Syndrome? Imposter syndrome and imposter syndrome. Right. So I was like, I was doing everything I could to not talk to a customer because I wasn’t sure how to say it.

00:55:14:11 – 00:55:31:14
Alex C
Yeah. And when I started talking to customers because I just had to, I was like, oh, I understand you want to talk to your customers, you want to talk to the market. Because when you talk, you listen as well, right? And then that’s where you hear all the good stuff. And as the founder, as the entrepreneur or whatever, you can change things and you can adapt things.

00:55:31:14 – 00:55:43:07
Alex C
And maybe that was the idea that, oh, that was the thing I was missing. I just heard the pain point or I’m on customer service. I heard six people say the same thing, okay, I should focus on this. You know what I mean? So I love that.

00:55:43:09 – 00:56:04:01
Taryn W
It’s like, valuable. And I think, you know, as as amazing as your team might be, they’ll never connect the dots, I think in the way the founder will say, I think, you know, they can definitely go and like, you know, build a new baton or whatever, but they won’t say that opportunity of like, oh, wow, we could build a whole nother section in this platform, or we could build a whole nother business on Pinterest.

00:56:04:03 – 00:56:25:16
Alex C
It’s the innovation that happens as a result of those conversations. I think that’s what it’s all about now. One final question. In terms of the mentorship side of things, and this is something I think that you mentioned at the very start about how you outreached you ask for help, if they ask something, you know, so you just basically executed everything, and then you went back to like, hey, all right.

00:56:25:16 – 00:56:43:16
Alex C
Cool. So I’ve done that now, can I do something else right now? I’ve mentioned a few people over the years, and I like the people who do what you did. Right. I think, you know, like, in terms of mentorship, I think everyone actually wants something off the person, but they don’t understand how it is just for the mentor and what they want to say.

00:56:43:16 – 00:56:57:19
Alex C
Right. And so what do you want to say? Because I think it is good to kind of state it out loud. So someone’s listening and they want to speak to you or whatever they know. All right. This is the expectation at least. Yeah, you can contact me but make sure these things happen, right? Yes. How do you think about it.

00:56:57:21 – 00:57:10:19
Taryn W
So and I couldn’t agree more. I think so many people go on how do I get a mentor and I want a mentor and you’re like, okay, what do I want to mentor for? And like, oh, because I, you know, I don’t really know what I want to do with my life. I’m thinking about starting a business, you know?

00:57:10:19 – 00:57:33:13
Taryn W
Well, no one person can help you with that. Like so once you know exactly what it is that you need this person for, okay, then you’ve got a very, very specific list of things that you might need. Like, I want to start a fintech business. One of my first mentors was, was a CEO. KT and I had gone to him because I was like, I need to build a payment gateway.

00:57:33:15 – 00:57:52:13
Taryn W
I’ve narrowed it down to these three different payment gateways. I’ve done the analysis. I’ve done the research. I know the different costs. Could you please tell me why you open your business? I decided to go with this particular payment gateway. What is it that I’m missing? And so it’s something very tangible and practical that that person can help you with, you know, a 15 minute call or coffee or whatever.

00:57:52:15 – 00:58:26:21
Taryn W
And then from there, you know, you see what that personal dynamic is like. Is this someone that I could work with? Do did I find that? Did they find that enjoyable to, you know, did I find that enjoyable? Is there an appetite here to, you know, turn this into something more? And the only, the only time I think it’s beneficial for a mentor is when you, when they see someone who is willing to execute, willing to follow their advice, who follows up and they go, you know, okay, I’ve given you this an hour of my day over coffee of giving me some insight, some advice, some of my key learnings, and then the number

00:58:26:21 – 00:58:42:20
Taryn W
of times I just never hear from someone after that. I don’t know if you’ve had the same thing. You know, I would always, with my mentors, follow up with a handwritten thank you note, checking in in six weeks time with an update of what I had done, what I hadn’t done, where I was blocked. You know, follow up again.

00:58:42:20 – 00:59:00:11
Taryn W
Need to ask for another coffee meeting. Here’s what I’ve done. These workers are an update on the business. I had a personal CRM of people that I would meet up with once a week, once a fortnight, once a month, once a quarter, once a year. And I would make sure I keep them warm, update them on the business, you know.

00:59:00:11 – 00:59:17:05
Taryn W
So it really is. It’s a it’s, you know, it’s a formal process and I think treating it as such and treating that person with the respect that, you know, their time is, is valuable and, and worth, I think is, is so enjoyable then for any person mentoring someone.

00:59:17:09 – 00:59:18:14
Alex C
That’s what I was about to say.

00:59:18:16 – 00:59:20:06
Taryn W
I’m so invested in your journey.

00:59:20:12 – 00:59:40:11
Alex C
Yeah, I think that’s a big one. I think just for everyone. Who wants a mentor as well? Is that, you know, as mentors actually like being a mentor because, you know, they want to support a fresh entrepreneur, assuming that that entrepreneur is going to put in the work and they look for speed execution and just doing what you say on time and then following up.

00:59:40:11 – 01:00:03:24
Alex C
Right? You know, there’s so many people who want it, but there’s not many people who will put in the work and that have the discipline to follow through. And so I think, you know, if you’re going to outreach and if you’re going to ask, you know, just become like a mentor, just ask yourself first, like, having, basically heard everything in this podcast, like, like, are you the kind of person I should respond to and I you specific enough with what you want, and you know what I mean?

01:00:04:00 – 01:00:19:12
Alex C
I think this is a really, really important part. But I do think that there’s a lot of potential for mentorship out there. Right? It’s just you have to, you know, just do the majority of the work and show that you, worthy of the mentorship, I guess in a way.

01:00:19:14 – 01:00:45:14
Taryn W
Yes, partly. And I think, you know, I’m always very clear with people like the six years of growing the right fit. I didn’t have a holiday. I worked every single weekend. I worked probably 12 or 14 hour days. Everything else came second. And that’s, you know, the cost of the cost of doing business, you know, and I think if you’re willing to make that sacrifice because you believe in building something better, obviously it’s probably incredibly frowned upon saying that these days.

01:00:45:14 – 01:00:49:11
Taryn W
And these must have some sort of work life balance and mental health and blah, blah, blah. But yeah.

01:00:49:11 – 01:00:57:12
Alex C
That’s all lies. That’s all lies. And those are the people that are not succeeding, I tell you, because all the entrepreneurs I know are there just working all the time.

01:00:57:14 – 01:01:13:09
Taryn W
Yeah, breaking it back and, you know, and that’s that’s what it had to be for me. I mean, maybe there’s people who are smarter than me and can do it in less time and whatever, but my journey was breaking my back, putting in every single hour, every single day, you know, that I could get my hands on and all of the resources and all of the favors and big and bar and stealing.

01:01:13:09 – 01:01:34:23
Taryn W
And so I think being very with it, because there’s also no shame in being an entrepreneur, working within your organization and having, you know, great ideas and being paid. You don’t have to go and start your own thing. And if you’re, you know, if you want to do that and just be very realistic with yourself that there is a very real opportunity cost, you know, it will come at the cost of relationships, of holidays, of sometimes your health.

01:01:34:24 – 01:01:37:02
Taryn W
You know that that is what it is and.

01:01:37:04 – 01:01:57:11
Alex C
All of the above and more and more. And and this is why I started off by asking is entrepreneurship something that can be taught or is it just inbuilt? Because the amount of sacrifice and pain that someone has to go through is, is significant. You know, it’s significant. You know. So just like and it’s and it’s also not something that you choose.

01:01:57:11 – 01:02:14:18
Alex C
It’s like you can’t help but do it. It’s not like I kind of like always like to, to kind of explain it like in that you can’t stop an entrepreneur. I lost my train of thought now. Anyway, look, I was so conscious of time. I was hoping that this would be kind of 30, 40 minute. But you’re just so awesome.

01:02:14:18 – 01:02:20:04
Alex C
And there’s so much to talk about, so it’s taken a bit longer. How do people get in touch with you?

01:02:20:06 – 01:02:30:05
Taryn W
Yes, they can email me, Taryn at Hatch gifted.com. Or reach out to me on LinkedIn. It’s just Tamilians or on Insta again, it’s just at town.

01:02:30:05 – 01:02:54:01
Alex C
Williams and hash gifted. You should just be signing up. But it’s only $100 a month. Like, you know, we spend tens and tens and tens of thousands of dollars on content every month, you know, just for our agency, so we know how much and how hard it is. And, if you want a good way of just getting some good content and it’s a very cost of a cost effective way, sign up 100 bucks a month, that’s a great start.

01:02:54:01 – 01:03:11:07
Alex C
And then just take it from there. But, Taryn, thank you so much. I’m sorry about that last part. Where the doorbell rang, but I guess it’s going to make us actually stop. Seven minutes over, but thank you so much. It’s been such a great conversation. I’m so happy for your success, everyone. You know, just, you know, just listen to every single thing that you said.

01:03:11:07 – 01:03:20:23
Alex C
Like, if you’re actually just thinking about kind of entrepreneurship because it’s a journey, you know, and I think that you’ve had a fantastic journey from what I can say.

01:03:21:00 – 01:03:23:22
Taryn W
Thank you so much. I loved our chat.

01:03:23:24 – 01:03:40:00
Alex C
Thanks for listening to the Growth Manifesto podcast. If you enjoyed the episode, please give us a five star rating on iTunes. For more episodes, please visit Growth manifesto.com/podcast. And if you need help driving growth for your company, please get in touch with us at Web profits.io.